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Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:56:53 -0600
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Gender, yet again.
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:52 PM, vitci'i <celestialcognition@gmail.com>wrote:

> >>> How about: x1 is the internal subjective identity of x2 according to
> >>> x3
> >>>
> >>> Thus {tu'a lo nanmu mi ceinse} would be "I'm male-gendered" (I'm
> >>> putting a tu'a in there because otherwise I feel like I'm saying
> >>> something more like {da poi nanmu zo'u da mi ceinse}, which doesn't
> >>> make sense.) and {tu'a lo tinbe mi ceinse} could be used for "I'm a
> >>> submissive" or {tu'a lo arxokuna mi mi ceinse} for "I self-identify
> >>> as a raccoon." (e.g. a furry).
> >>
> >> That's actually too *narrow* -- it doesn't allow us to talk about how we
> >> gender inanimate objects and each other. (E.g., <http://is.gd/HXdBMy>,
> >> <http://is.gd/aFzoSg>.)
> >>
> >
> > The use of "gender" in that context is different than
> self-identification;
> > it's targeting based on gender, and that's a tanru/lujvo.
>
> What would you tanru/lujvo together to convey that? sevzi is
> insufficient to distinguish gender identity from other kinds of
> self-identification (e.g. nationality/culture); klesi and le'e likewise.
> cinse is narrower, but as I've mentioned also means sexual orientation,
> and to distinguish which sense is meant we again need a word that means
> gender.
>
> (If we had a word for sex, gender could be constructed by lujvo as "sex
> stereotype". But we don't.)
>

If you mean sex as in "having this particular sexual chromosome pair", we
have a lujvo for that:
jbepibnafei<http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/jbepibnafei>


> (Perhaps gender could be {pibykemxarlei} as "pubic stereotype"?)
>
> --
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>
>


-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:52 PM, vitci&#39;i <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:celestialcognition@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">celestialcognition@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im">&gt;&gt;&gt; How about: x1 is the internal subjective ide=
ntity of x2 according to<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; x3<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Thus {tu&#39;a lo nanmu mi ceinse} would be &quot;I&#39;m male=
-gendered&quot; (I&#39;m<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; putting a tu&#39;a in there because otherwise I feel like I&#3=
9;m saying<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; something more like {da poi nanmu zo&#39;u da mi ceinse}, whic=
h doesn&#39;t<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; make sense.) and {tu&#39;a lo tinbe mi ceinse} could be used f=
or &quot;I&#39;m a<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; submissive&quot; or {tu&#39;a lo arxokuna mi mi ceinse} for &q=
uot;I self-identify<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; as a raccoon.&quot; (e.g. a furry).<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; That&#39;s actually too *narrow* -- it doesn&#39;t allow us to tal=
k about how we<br>
&gt;&gt; gender inanimate objects and each other. (E.g., &lt;<a href=3D"htt=
p://is.gd/HXdBMy" target=3D"_blank">http://is.gd/HXdBMy</a>&gt;,<br>
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"http://is.gd/aFzoSg" target=3D"_blank">http://is.gd=
/aFzoSg</a>&gt;.)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The use of &quot;gender&quot; in that context is different than self-i=
dentification;<br>
&gt; it&#39;s targeting based on gender, and that&#39;s a tanru/lujvo.<br>
<br>
</div>What would you tanru/lujvo together to convey that? sevzi is<br>
insufficient to distinguish gender identity from other kinds of<br>
self-identification (e.g. nationality/culture); klesi and le&#39;e likewise=
.<br>
cinse is narrower, but as I&#39;ve mentioned also means sexual orientation,=
<br>
and to distinguish which sense is meant we again need a word that means<br>
gender.<br>
<br>
(If we had a word for sex, gender could be constructed by lujvo as &quot;se=
x<br>
stereotype&quot;. But we don&#39;t.)<br></blockquote><div><br>If you mean s=
ex as in &quot;having this particular sexual chromosome pair&quot;, we have=
 a lujvo for that: <a href=3D"http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/jbepibnaf=
ei">jbepibnafei</a><br>
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

(Perhaps gender could be {pibykemxarlei} as &quot;pubic stereotype&quot;?)<=
br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
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n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>
<br>

<p></p>

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