On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Jonathan Jones = <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 9= :05 PM, vitci'i <celestialcognition@gmail.com> wrote:

On 07/12/2012 09:56 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:52 PM, vitci'i <celestialcognition@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>>>> How about: x1 is the internal subjective identity of x= 2 according to
>>>>> x3
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus {tu'a lo nanmu mi ceinse} would be "I= 9;m male-gendered" (I'm
>>>>> putting a tu'a in there because otherwise I feel l= ike I'm saying
>>>>> something more like {da poi nanmu zo'u da mi ceins= e}, which doesn't
>>>>> make sense.) and {tu'a lo tinbe mi ceinse} could b= e used for "I'm a
>>>>> submissive" or {tu'a lo arxokuna mi mi ceinse= } for "I self-identify
>>>>> as a raccoon." (e.g. a furry).
>>>>
>>>> That's actually too *narrow* -- it doesn't allow u= s to talk about how we
>>>> gender inanimate objects and each other. (E.g., <http://is.gd/HXdBMy>, >>>> <http= ://is.gd/aFzoSg>.)
>>>>
>>>
>>> The use of "gender" in that context is different tha= n
>> self-identification;
>>> it's targeting based on gender, and that's a tanru/luj= vo.
>>
>> What would you tanru/lujvo together to convey that? sevzi is
>> insufficient to distinguish gender identity from other kinds of >> self-identification (e.g. nationality/culture); klesi and le'e= likewise.
>> cinse is narrower, but as I've mentioned also means sexual ori= entation,
>> and to distinguish which sense is meant we again need a word that = means
>> gender.
>>
>> (If we had a word for sex, gender could be constructed by lujvo as= "sex
>> stereotype". But we don't.)
>>
>
> If you mean sex as in "having this particular sexual chromosome p= air", we
> have a lujvo for that:

> jbepibnafei<http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/jbep= ibnafei>

(Technically it's a fu'ivla.)

= No, it's a lujvo. It's made by combining the rafsi of various gismu= and cmavo together. A fu'ivla is a foreign word.

nvm. I was wrong.

I dislike long words for important concepts. And jbepibnafei doesn't specify chromosomes over (say) genitals; it's presumably most useful in=
cases where a clean gender binary is assumed, or where edge cases should be described in full.

Anyway, I'm certainly not going to say {jbepibnafei ke kulnu xarlei ke&= #39;e
sevzi} every time I want to talk about gender identity. If I had the
power to rewrite cinse, gender identity would be {cinse'i}.

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mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e&#= 39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(= Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )