Received: from mail-vc0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]:45449)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCKvA2oWYARCIzoeABRoETL5waQ@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1SqA3j-0002P2-FZ; Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:39:32 -0700
Received: by vcbfl10 with SMTP id fl10sf3190151vcb.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:39:21 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from
         :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=bU8JtmXRqlNvLHtqnDToo2wnpO24WAhzBYLs1n6hlyw=;
        b=zKH1DGufmfJAZCE/c2js0bPoFE2D7jjgsVkN4B9fV8cmj0EetaT03mwzlVQ+eiEHxB
         V0VQeOeZdU3wm7KRPO9QGJmw6caFhxelxk8MKKZV/bNjcaVaeOeSpB5CqClgYUmNW99y
         LYUStGp8fCBC9hl7s4pLQRFzu98+/0+mQf80w=
Received: by 10.52.34.8 with SMTP id v8mr441555vdi.5.1342301960922;
        Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.220.221.197 with SMTP id id5ls2308616vcb.5.gmail; Sat, 14 Jul
 2012 14:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.52.24.68 with SMTP id s4mr4548905vdf.3.1342301960350;
        Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.52.24.68 with SMTP id s4mr4548904vdf.3.1342301960339;
        Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-vb0-f51.google.com (mail-vb0-f51.google.com [209.85.212.51])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l12si496291vdf.3.2012.07.14.14.39.20
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.51 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.51;
Received: by vbip1 with SMTP id p1so2715920vbi.10
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.52.71.137 with SMTP id v9mr2375548vdu.63.1342301960090; Sat,
 14 Jul 2012 14:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.52.24.193 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:38:59 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <5001CF17.2070004@gmx.de>
References: <d8d8b89a-56b9-45d2-9857-8933b550a853@googlegroups.com>
 <CAOQ8VDUnQ3duQAmWU0ctHXF64nzODSTap+RmJN5pL=QaM7ozhw@mail.gmail.com>
 <b7517793-6a74-45df-b1d4-c8ac57240d13@googlegroups.com> <CAOQ8VDWmfSuC-3izLWA6eBruMSHoPH+nRpHD-8qVk1CLB9cRag@mail.gmail.com>
 <5001AF4D.8070001@gmx.de> <9f7b81ef-8273-4521-93e7-639d3859b314@googlegroups.com>
 <5001CF17.2070004@gmx.de>
From: Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 17:38:59 -0400
Message-ID: <CAOQ8VDWwBovN02-LqZGCkEVg_JKxz_T=W7OQxZYBHKGwbe_YzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Pokemon translation
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: nictytan@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.51 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=nictytan@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

On 14 July 2012 15:57, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:
> Am 14.07.2012 21:47, schrieb djandus:
>
> On Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:41:33 PM UTC-5, selpa'i wrote:
>>
>> Except it is isn't a zi'evla (for the reasons mentioned above).
>
> I really like your reasoning, but the words we're defining right now are
> primarily for ((lai pokemon.)), the words that we would want to use in the
> real world for discussing pokemon. ((selci'a sera'a lai pokemon.)), the
> terms used in the game, are another matter.
>
>
> Oh, I was talking about in-game language only. I'm only interested in
> getting this game done and actually playing it.
>
>
> Most of the time, there, I'm thinking that {pok} isn't as necessary because
> of the same reason -- it's so commonplace that if I say a pokemon changed
> {ko'a binxo} I would first assume an evolution.
>
> Also, you have to remember that even though we make up terms for the game,
> should it be played, the terms will probably leak out. For example, I really
> like the idea story-wise of inventing a gismu like pokme for pokemon and the
> writing dialogue and story where the characters use it. It would make it
> feel very real and such. However, a reprecussion would be that
> players/readers would be very inclined to use pokme in real conversation,
> even if a fu'ivla existed, as it's the term they would see more often and
> have to interpret. In short, save it for the fanfiction ;P
>
>
> You really don't need to worry about that. The in-world (in-game) usage is
> way more important than any of the possible repurcussions you listed. It's
> really not a big deal to create a word such as pokme, and we're definitely
> safe using pokmone. Realness is priority number 1 if the goal is to create a
> great game experience.
>

Of course, that's the #1 goal, but even in books, the narrator will
use only standard vocabulary or will distort the narrative to suit the
reader. Consider that case of a book narrated in English in which the
characters however speak Mandarin: "Hi! What did you do before she
came over?" he said.
"he" presumably said it in Mandarin, but because the book is being
read by people who don't speak that language, then it's necessary to
change the quotation, which doesn't event reflect what is actually
being said!
By that same logic, even though in-world, the characters might use
loads of local/specific vocabulary, we *are* allowed to *not* use that
vocabulary.
Additionally, if we do use -pok- as a rafsi for pokmone/pokme (I do
prefer {pokmone}) we *can* expect all those pseudo-lujvo and such to
escape into the real world. Now of course, we *are* allowed to do
this: who's going to stop us? No one. Lojban is GNU/Loglan after all.
*we* can do whatever we like with the language; the BPFK aren't going
to send C&D orders at us.

I say, let using "illegal" words be on the consciences of the players,
if they so choose to use those words outside of the game. It's not
like making them into zi'evla is hard: stick an -r- hyphen right in
the rafsi border.

mu'o mi'e la tsani

>
> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
>
> --
> .i pau mi me ma .i pa mai ko mi jungau la'e di'u
> .i ba bo mi va'o lo nu nelci lo nu me ma kau cu barkla
> .i va'o lo nu na nelci cu denpa ti lo nu mi drata
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.