Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]:64313) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SrHPt-0000Bc-D0; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:43:03 -0700 Received: by yenl13 with SMTP id l13sf1157056yen.16 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:42:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=QhocTpr0ReCQP9MtbByqL6izGtnC3Vg2W7QPY4PcwqU=; b=rKRy595amK8KT5MHFlTeD8WfR/3lyvdvE9nh7FjoXP1e+34r1LKgVHebjoFF/YJXDM 0Moau9vTGLw8KRyi39K0MdvhevifUEpYuKqJmoDEa1muD8T7Xjlpv1V9Valqt0p3VOFR O6NFa6PAwk7zfrhn7RL02Rqp/LiuH7p4YRUCQ= Received: by 10.52.94.147 with SMTP id dc19mr485816vdb.17.1342568571142; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:42:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.35.202 with SMTP id k10ls25856vdj.0.gmail; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:42:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.68.141 with SMTP id w13mr490428vdt.18.1342568570697; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:42:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:42:49 -0700 (PDT) From: djandus To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <7364d19a-91c4-408c-b78c-e466f5b3f4a0@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <5005EEF6.1040202@gmx.de> References: <3ff6a666-ef57-4139-9a40-a5cc4ddc2a70@googlegroups.com> <3ef5f8a1-0636-4268-8efb-1bb1bfb23554@googlegroups.com> <49efef2f-4717-46c5-98c6-923771fc4a91@googlegroups.com> <50058418.408@gmx.de> <8cdeb885-517e-4d9f-b8b7-c76f2c5da456@googlegroups.com> <5005E37A.60400@gmx.de> <36dbe276-8f9d-4e57-ae32-88f7c349bf6d@googlegroups.com> <5005EEF6.1040202@gmx.de> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Pokemon translation MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: jandew@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jandew@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jandew@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_313_2964721.1342568569944" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_313_2964721.1342568569944 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:02:14 PM UTC-5, selpa'i wrote: > > A skilled Lojbanist has to know that tsi =3D tsiju. > I completely agree. The issue is that I *want unskilled lojbanists to enjoy= =20 the game.* Again, think of Pok=E9mon originally. A game for kids. Unskilled= =20 English speakers could follow it easily. I discussed this with Lindar last= =20 night, and he mentioned how the Japanese version had very little kanji.=20 Same reason. Sure, a skilled Japanese reader should be able to read all=20 kanji all the time quickly, but that's just not the point of making an=20 enjoyable game. It's very much like in English, where the name reminds you of an actual=20 > English word (Mankey > Monkey).=20 > That's what the fu'ivla are like, sure. But the lojban should be explicit. e.g. {jirnyrespa} "Horn Reptile" for something like Nidoking (this is just= =20 > an example) > I'm entirely okay with this. That means (gasp!) that playing a game helped= =20 you know a word in the real world. Sure, it may be amusing that every time= =20 you see that horned lizard you think of Nidoking (who isn't a reptile, is= =20 he?), but past that, you get to have an association that you can remember= =20 easily. (And also to clear something up: If I were to make a lujvo for=20 Nidoking, it would probably involve looking at this and=20 picking an interpretation. {jesnoltrunau} barely fits, but it uses=20 {noltrunau}, which is an official lujvo, so I'd be more likely to go with= =20 it. Also, lujvo with parallels between six pok=E9mon are going to need a lo= t=20 of rafsi. My point being, I really doubt anypony would name a pokemon with= =20 a boring lujvo that could describe a normal creature. Maybe an exotic one,= =20 but not a boring, commonplace one. I'm going to post the six pokemon in the= =20 Nidoran family, translated in this way, in the wiki.) I'd like to mention here that I hope these aren't all going to be entered= =20 in as official lujvo. So much jargon, when there are such better words to= =20 fill a dictionary with... You never have this problem when using fu'ivla. > Instead, you get 150 completely new words that are only vaguely=20 lojban-based. Yay. Note, I have nothing against using fu'ivla for pokemon. I expect a lot of= =20 them to be fine and great. However, I think {tsijyrespa} is awesome for=20 "Bulbasaur", and far better suited for what I want this to be: a game that= =20 Lojbanists enjoy and can use to help learn some terminology. So, whenever= =20 possible, I want long lujvo. Oh, and just an update -- I'm going to try to ignore stuff on here for a=20 bit and kick out a better intro text, as well as the other things you've=20 mentioned. I'm almost ready to move forward to bigger things! Thanks for=20 all the input so far, and keep it up! mu'o mi'e djos --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo= jban/-/ScC5bcCljW8J. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. ------=_Part_313_2964721.1342568569944 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:02:14 PM UTC-5, selpa'i wrote:
=20 =20 =20
A skilled Lojbanist has to = know that tsi =3D tsiju.
I completely agree. T= he issue is that I want unskilled lojbanists to enjoy the game. = ;Again, think of Pok=E9mon originally. A game for kids. Unskilled English s= peakers could follow it easily. I discussed this with Lindar last night, an= d he mentioned how the Japanese version had very little kanji. Same re= ason. Sure, a skilled Japanese reader should be able to read all kanji all = the time quickly, but that's just not the point of making an enjoyable game= .

It's very much like in English, where the name reminds you of an actual English word (Mankey > Monkey). 
T= hat's what the fu'ivla are like, sure. But the lojban should be explicit.

e.g. {jirnyrespa} "Horn Reptile" for something like Nidoking (this is just an example)
I'm entirely okay with this. That means (gasp!) that = playing a game helped you know a word in the real world. Sure, it may be am= using that every time you see that horned lizard you think of Nidoking (who= isn't a reptile, is he?), but past that, you get to have an association th= at you can remember easily. (And also to clear something up: If I were to m= ake a lujvo for Nidoking, it would probably involve looking at this and picking an interpretation. {jesnoltru= nau} barely fits, but it uses {noltrunau}, which is an official lujvo, so I= 'd be more likely to go with it. Also, lujvo with parallels between six pok= =E9mon are going to need a lot of rafsi. My point being, I really doubt anypony would name a pokemon with a boring l= ujvo that could describe a normal creature. Maybe an exotic one, but not a = boring, commonplace one. I'm going to post the six pokemon in the Nidoran f= amily, translated in this way, in the wiki.)

I'd like to mention here that I hope these aren't all going to be e= ntered in as official lujvo. So much jargon, when there are such better wor= ds to fill a dictionary with...

You nev= er have this problem when using fu'ivla.
In= stead, you get 150 completely new words that are only vaguely lojban-based.= Yay.

Note, I have nothing against using fu'ivla f= or pokemon. I expect a lot of them to be fine and great. However, I think {= tsijyrespa} is awesome for "Bulbasaur", and far better suited for what I wa= nt this to be: a game that Lojbanists enjoy and can use to help learn some = terminology. So, whenever possible, I want long lujvo.

=
Oh, and just an update -- I'm going to try to ignore stuff on here for= a bit and kick out a better intro text, as well as the other things you've= mentioned. I'm almost ready to move forward to bigger things! Thanks for a= ll the input so far, and keep it up!

mu'o mi'e djo= s

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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/Sc= C5bcCljW8J.
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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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