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Subject: Re: [lojban] Scales vocabulary construction
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On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 6:09 AM, Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis
<felipeg.assis@gmail.com> wrote:
> coi
>
> In what follows, scales are certain colections of properties (in the
> sense of CLL 15.5).
> Examples of scales are
>
>  1. colour properties, e.g. {lo ka blanu}
>  2. direction relations, e.g. {lo ka gapru}
>  3. animal/plant types, e.g. {lo ka mlatu}
>  4. family relations, e.g. {lo ka mamta}
>  5. compass directions, e.g. {lo ka berti}
>  6. genders, e.g. {lo ka fetsi}

Another one that came up recently is

7. position/stance/posture, e.g. "lo ka sanli"
>
> The scale of colours is part of the definition of {skari}, which
> requires a colour as its x2.
> Similarly, {farna} defines the scale of directions (according to one
> interpretation).
>
> brivla for talking about a recognized scale is a relevant vocabulary
> demand. Using
> existent vocabulary, we can easily and precisely ask what colour an
> object is, or about
> the direction from one point to another. However, in order to talk
> about family relations,
> compass directions, or non-binary genders, we need some circumlocutions.
>
> Talk about these abstract scales is greatly simplified when we have a
> brivla with a
> definition like
>   "x1 has property x2 of scale S." or
>   "x1 and x2 are related by relation x3 of scale T.", etc.
>
> I ask if there are any general guidelines we could follow in coining
> this kind of brivla,

How about basing them on:

cmikai: ko'a ckaji ko'e noi cmima ko'i
cmiki'i: ko'a ckini ko'e ko'i noi cmima ko'o

> particularly when the only practical description of the scale is a
> list of examples.

Yes, the difficult part is naming the scales, not making brivla that
mean "x1 has property x2 of scale S" or "x1 and x2 are related by
relation x3 of scale T."

> This is peculiar because it means creating an abstract vocabulary from
> a more concrete
> base, which implies that no neat lojban definition is to be expected.
> We can't rely on
> fu'ivla in general because Lojbanistani should be free to come up with
> their own unique
> scales (like "gender independent family relations").
>
> One idea is to make lujvo like {rodjavbo'e}, where {broda} and {brode}
> would be two
> prototypical examples of the scale to be defined. You may take it as
> coming from the
> phrasing
>   {ko'a ckaji lo ka broda .a lo ka brode .a lo simsa}
> or even from
>   {ko'a broda ja brode ja brodi ja brodo ja brodu}
> where {{broda}, ..., {brodu}} would be the full (finite) scale.
>
> According to that idea, {xunjavbla} could mean "x1 has colour x2", {sunja=
vberti}
> something like "The compass direction to x1 from x2 is x3" and {tubjavrir=
ni}
> "x1 is a relative of x2 by family relation x3".
>
> Since the literal disjunctions would hardly deserve a lujvo, I guess
> we could use our
> freedom to define a lujvo with a little more than its veljvo components.

Ot how about:

xuncmikai: ko'a ckaji ko'e noi cmima lo se cmima be lo ka xunre

ti xuncmikai lo ka pelxu

To make the scale more clear you may include more than one value:

do nakfetcmikai ma
What gender are you?

do zutsa'icmikai ma
In what position are you?


> (The above examples are illustrative only. The ad-hoc {lazyki'i} is
> certainly a better
> option for family-relation, for example.)

And we already have "skari" for "xuncmikai".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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