Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f61.google.com ([209.85.215.61]:41632)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCL3SuIvlExDJlLuABRoE14yiYA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1SthmU-0003vC-Am; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:16:27 -0700
Received: by laai10 with SMTP id i10sf859317laa.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:16:10 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authenticated:x-provags-id:message-id
         :date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to
         :x-y-gmx-trusted:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results
         :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id
         :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=wjX/j3HboiE81ywxmkeXhGpx72ZQQpNhcO3s6c1p3aI=;
        b=vvaryMpM5l0Xeo1gOUptuLKsomU+q7UusVIWNo7asNOgWCCUaO8Ghc8H2HG3/Ai/7w
         yWCRqUbWZhCDzeEtM4YZ0c+NSm+WNk50FSE7fddbhCG0UNn1wGSDxIZVxBdcI/dXJh4o
         hj4spIbEd4Ay0ozOyZVINEdab/D6RXo2em+7o=
Received: by 10.216.62.11 with SMTP id x11mr365065wec.51.1343146569331;
        Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:16:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.180.78.166 with SMTP id c6ls952378wix.4.canary; Tue, 24 Jul
 2012 09:16:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.180.14.169 with SMTP id q9mr785805wic.0.1343146567740;
        Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:16:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.180.14.169 with SMTP id q9mr785804wic.0.1343146567725;
        Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:16:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net. [213.165.64.22])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id e5si709103wiw.0.2012.07.24.09.16.07;
        Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:16:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 213.165.64.22 as permitted sender) client-ip=213.165.64.22;
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 24 Jul 2012 16:16:07 -0000
Received: from p57A08D5F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.1.33]) [87.160.141.95]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp016) with SMTP; 24 Jul 2012 18:16:07 +0200
X-Authenticated: #54293076
X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+wJnodElCwYmKpq3vxBT7wIP8SkqZd05b7gEy5Av
	PfMOR8Vfbe4QlA
Message-ID: <500ECA45.3040609@gmx.de>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:16:05 +0200
From: selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] la snime blabi
References: <CAHiXx=MWGf7aO0jNTtb3VLL8VT2k2tLY-+8WAgqy_8BXeLT-CA@mail.gmail.com> <4FF34B59.6060005@gmx.de> <CAKOEKkRzEvU8tEJtPfmS5wLVVF6CU46dH1MEOwngae5LE6EMtA@mail.gmail.com> <CAOQ8VDV34d=LvfH_RWc+DEdu0pSctRETR2ZngE9A5cNz5XrS7A@mail.gmail.com> <CAKOEKkQ3VM-Eq_Y62eONdc-RAqt2Kaex5-Y9XVGHHZhA=ZELag@mail.gmail.com> <4FFF49EE.1070207@gmx.de> <CAKOEKkQme19Ley-rDqKOw9QjjFJeTrECOK=EPsn8oVQkWXqpZQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAKOEKkSEdgQtVLBK6S+WpjCi=K17xs73QnZXxdo7FLq8SKLAgQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAKOEKkSxC53D0Kdo+gvBe27-dfjb9THfHQM=sQ=X9SnMoyxUCA@mail.gmail.com> <500D51B8.3020006@gmx.de> <CAKOEKkQGWQ-1VCYfozDsmKZXnCtJtKGnGNG0WLu5egd+1xO-pg@mail.gmail.com> <CAKOEKkRMyD9=kNA7qeXy32-uEvpYnvscEANddb7qZYPs0FYx0w@mail.gmail.com> <500D58DA.7040107@gmx.de> <CAKOEKkT+-rWaqj7bfDEnK_jgNQveFxU1pd0OFYd=KwBYtUgcGw@mail.gmail.com> <500D60F7.8030708@gmx.de> <CAKOEKkTJof3wXRztuKEGNWCR_QjjdLx5DGPBknQDuGu5oJYqDw@mail.gmail.com> <CAKOEKkQMYpuH-xqnJo-PNRt7dADfufcZmUjQ+dJ_s9xMWXatqQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAKOEKkQMYpuH-xqnJo-PNRt7dADfufcZmUjQ+dJ_s9xMWXatqQ@mail.gmail.com>
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 213.165.64.22 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------050702090200030900090000"
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------050702090200030900090000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Am 24.07.2012 17:44, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
> ".i ny za'u re'u pensi lo nu ta'i ma kau catra kei mu'i lo nu co'u lo 
> nu ca'a mlerai be ro lo selgu'e cu na surla kakne ri'a lo nu jilra"
>
> (first, I should note that on a grammatical note, genrei doesn't like 
> it without a "boi" or "cu" between "ny" and "re'u" since they 
> otherwise form into a single lerfu string.  jboski (online jbofi'e), 
> OTOH, has no problem with it.  I"m not sure what the "correct" 
> interpretation is according to the formal grammar)

It's missing a cu. As I originally said, I did not proof-read the 
translation, so typos like this one are expected to show up here and there.

> pensi-2's are normally considered to be ideas, not events, so it 
> should be si'o, not nu, for those who are pedantic about such stuff.

You can think about anything. You can think about objects, events, 
whatever you want. Anything you can hold in your mind can be a pensi2.

> But more importantly, I'm again having trouble getting the proper 
> sense of the sentence.  I think you are trying to say that she is once 
> again thinking about how to kill (Snow White) because she is not able 
> to relax because  she is no longer the most beautiful in the land, due 
> to her jealousy.  Which I guess works, but it's real hard for me to 
> puzzle out the convolutions of the sentence due to the nested modals 
> and tenses

It's quite straighforward for me. But I can walk you through it:

.i ny cu za'u re'u pensi lo nu ta'i ma kau catra kei
The queen (ny) again thought about how to kill (her)

mu'i lo nu co'u lo nu ca'a mlerai lo ro selgu'e
because, until she was actually the pretties of all the people in the 
country,

cu na surla kakne
(she) would not be able to relax

ri'a lo nu jilra
because of her envy


I could add some more pro-sumti, but they are obvious enough to me to be 
elided. I don't like how the na scopes over the ri'a in this sentence, 
so I'll fix that in the actual text.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

-- 
.i pau mi me ma .i pa mai ko mi jungau la'e di'u
.i ba bo mi va'o lo nu nelci lo nu me ma kau cu barkla
.i va'o lo nu na nelci cu denpa ti lo nu mi drata

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.


--------------050702090200030900090000
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <tt>Am 24.07.2012 17:44, schrieb Michael Turniansky:<br>
    </tt>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAKOEKkQMYpuH-xqnJo-PNRt7dADfufcZmUjQ+dJ_s9xMWXatqQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr"><tt>"<span
style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:18px;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">.i
            ny za'u re'u pensi lo nu ta'i ma kau catra kei mu'i lo nu
            co'u lo nu ca'a mlerai be ro lo selgu'e cu na surla kakne
            ri'a lo nu jilra"</span></tt>
        <div>
          <tt><span
style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:18px;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
            </span></tt></div>
        <div><tt><span
style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:18px;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">(first,
              I should note that on a grammatical note, genrei doesn't
              like it without a "boi" or "cu" between "ny" and "re'u"
              since they otherwise form into a single lerfu string.
              &nbsp;jboski (online jbofi'e), OTOH, has no problem with it.
              &nbsp;I"m not sure what the "correct" interpretation is
              according to the formal grammar)</span></tt></div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <tt><br>
      It's missing a cu. As I originally said, I did not proof-read the
      translation, so typos like this one are expected to show up here
      and there.<br>
      <br>
    </tt>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAKOEKkQMYpuH-xqnJo-PNRt7dADfufcZmUjQ+dJ_s9xMWXatqQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div><tt><span
style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:18px;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">pensi-2's
              are normally considered to be ideas, not events, so it
              should be si'o, not nu, for those who are pedantic about
              such stuff.&nbsp; <br>
            </span></tt></div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <tt><br>
      You can think about anything. You can think about objects, events,
      whatever you want. Anything you can hold in your mind can be a
      pensi2.<br>
      <br>
    </tt>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAKOEKkQMYpuH-xqnJo-PNRt7dADfufcZmUjQ+dJ_s9xMWXatqQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div><tt><span
style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:18px;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">But
              more importantly, I'm again having trouble getting the
              proper sense of the sentence. &nbsp;I think you are trying to
              say that she is once again thinking about how to kill
              (Snow White) because she is not able to relax because &nbsp;she
              is no longer the most beautiful in the land, due to her
              jealousy. &nbsp;Which I guess works, but it's real hard for me
              to puzzle out the convolutions of the sentence due to the
              nested modals and tenses</span></tt></div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <tt><br>
      It's quite straighforward for me. But I can walk you through it:<br>
      <br>
      .i ny cu za'u re'u pensi lo nu ta'i ma kau catra kei<br>
      The queen (ny) again thought about how to kill (her)<br>
      <br>
      mu'i lo nu co'u lo nu ca'a mlerai lo ro selgu'e <br>
      because, until she was actually the pretties of all the people in
      the country,<br>
      <br>
      cu na surla kakne <br>
      (she) would not be able to relax<br>
      <br>
      ri'a lo nu jilra<br>
      because of her envy<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      I could add some more pro-sumti, but they are obvious enough to me
      to be elided. I don't like how the na scopes over the ri'a in this
      sentence, so I'll fix that in the actual text.<br>
      <br>
      mu'o mi'e la selpa'i<br>
      <br>
    </tt>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72"><tt>-- 
.i pau mi me ma .i pa mai ko mi jungau la'e di'u 
.i ba bo mi va'o lo nu nelci lo nu me ma kau cu barkla 
.i va'o lo nu na nelci cu denpa ti lo nu mi drata</tt></pre>
  </body>
</html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.<br />



--------------050702090200030900090000--