On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at= 1:38 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1= 1:29 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrot= e:

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 12= :16 PM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Am 24.07.2012 17:44, schrieb Michael Turniansky:

".i ny za'u re'u pensi lo nu ta'i ma kau catra kei mu&#= 39;i lo nu co'u lo nu ca'a mlerai be ro lo selgu'e cu na surla= kakne ri'a lo nu jilra"

(first, I should note that on a grammatical note, genrei doesn't like it without a "boi" or "cu" between &= quot;ny" and "re'u" since they otherwise form into a single lerfu string. =A0jboski (online jbofi'e), OTOH, has no problem with it. =A0I"m not sure what the "correct" interpretat= ion is according to the formal grammar)

It's missing a cu. As I originally said, I did not proof-read the translation, so typos like this one are expected to show up here and there.

=A0 =A0Yeah, I = would tend to agree with that. =A0I=A0just=A0think it interesting that jbos= ki had no problem parsing it (and let's be honest, most humans wouldn&#= 39;t have=A0trouble=A0parsing it, either, tending to think of "z'a= ure'u" as a single conceptual unit, and since, even if one does ta= ke "ny.ra'u" as single unit, the sentence doesn't parse, = even a backtracking type of method must realize that that can't be righ= t)

pensi-2's are normally considered to be ideas, not events, so it should be si'o, not nu, for those who are pedantic about such stuff.=A0

You can think about anything. You can think about objects, events, whatever you want. Anything you can hold in your mind can be a pensi2.

=A0 =A0Again, t= he=A0pedants=A0(and I don't necessarily say that I'm one) would say= that you CAN'T hold a ball in your mind. =A0You can hold a ball in you= r hand. =A0You can only hold the IDEA of a ball in your mind, hence "s= i'o bolci". =A0As for me, I've always felt lojban was too stro= ngly "typed" anyhow.=A0

But more importantly, I'm again having trouble getting the proper sense of the sentence. =A0I think you are trying to say that she is once again thinking about how to kill (Snow White) because she is not able to relax because =A0she is no longer the most beautiful in the land, due to her jealousy. =A0Which I guess works, but it's real hard for = me to puzzle out the convolutions of the sentence due to the nested modals and tenses

It's quite straighforward for me. But I can walk you through it:<= br> .i ny cu za'u re'u pensi lo nu ta'i ma kau catra kei The queen (ny) again thought about how to kill (her) mu'i lo nu co'u lo nu ca'a mlerai lo ro selgu'e because, until she was actually the pretties of all the people in the country, cu na surla kakne (she) would not be able to relax ri'a lo nu jilra because of her envy I could add some more pro-sumti, but they are obvious enough to me to be elided. I don't like how the na scopes over the ri'a in= this sentence, so I'll fix that in the actual text.
=A0 So you interpret "co= 'u X" as meaning "until X"? =A0Interesting. =A0So, that&= #39;s in line with the proposal on http://www.lojban= .org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Aspect+as+of+24+May+2004 To me, I still use t= he CLL version, which is part of my confusion. =A0But in any case, I didn&#= 39;t say I couldn't puzzle it out,=A0just=A0that it was difficult. =A0A= nd yeah, I know you like to elide prosumti x1s in your main bridi, but that= 's the style of your story, so I didn't suggest changing it.
=A0 =A0--gejyspa

I thought "pu'o X" was "until X"...? <= br>

=A0 Yes, that's how the CLL has it, and the way I p= refer it, but read the discussion link I posted above, or =A0http://w= ww.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3DZAhO+as+sumti+tcita for why so= me don't like it that way. =A0 =A0 --gejyspa

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