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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 13:33:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bruno Durin <bruno.durin@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Lojban wall of complexity (beginner thoughts)
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Thank you for your answer!

Le mercredi 25 juillet 2012 04:44:28 UTC+2, Pierre Abbat a =E9crit :
>
> There is a lojban-fr mailing list you may be interested in. There's also =
a=20
> recording somewhere of several of us at last year's jbonunsla singing=20
> "ni'o=20
> le bi'u cmalu bloti ze'epu naku xe klama". We weren't sure what to do=20
> with "Oh=E9 matelot navigue sur les flots", though.=20
>
> I was aware of the French mailing list but I think there is less people=
=20
looking at it than the English one (so less potential answers to my=20
questions, either by asking directly or by googling archives). By the way,=
=20
I've only managed to get the archive=20
(http://mail.lojban.org/lists/lojban-fr/) that stops in late 2011 with some=
=20
messages talking about resurrecting the list. So what is its status? Is is=
=20
still active?
=20

> This computer-science term "class" is definitely not "klesi". A possible=
=20
> word=20
> for the concept is "gaurtarmi", "a form of instances that do things".=20
> Methods=20
> and members could be then gaurpau fa'u cadypau. "lo gaurtarmi cu cerda fi=
=20
> lo=20
> drata gaurtarmi" sounds fine to me. You can indicate a definition=20
> with "ca'edai" (it's a definition, but I didn't define it).
>
> Thanks for the help. I understand the word you suggest and the example yo=
u=20
give. In a non artificial language I would have looked in a dictionary and=
=20
even with a low level in the language I could have build a clumsy but=20
hopefully understandable sentence. Here you made the word for me. To your=
=20
mind, is a very good knowledge of the grammar and basis words (gismo and=20
cmavo) enough to be able to build new words as you did or are only=20
linguists have the experience and intuition to do this? I don't know=20
whether you are a linguist, I just assume you are, as founders of lojban.
Why klesi could not be used, maybe mixed with skami in an other tanru, or=
=20
simply with x2 always dropped and x3 giving directly the definition as in=
=20
"Point is a class with 2 numbers, coordinate x and coordinate y"? Point=20
would klesi1, 2 numbers, coordinate x and coordinate y, klesi3. I am not=20
trying to convince you klesi is the right word, I'd like to understand why=
=20
you dismissed it. Another idea would be the lojban meaning "a form of=20
instances containing things", highlighting the members instead of the=20
methods as your definition does.
If we imagine that a world for "class" is eventually in the "official=20
dictionary" of lojban in 2050, when lojban is spoken by millions of people=
=20
(let's dream a bit...), would it be the result of specialist discussions=20
during several years? or the people writing the most on the subject kind-of=
=20
imposing their choice?

Sincerely,
Bruno

Pierre=20
> --=20
> Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar.=20
>

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo=
jban/-/r1jQpSHWdvoJ.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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Thank you for your answer!<br><br>Le mercredi 25 juillet 2012 04:44:28 UTC+=
2, Pierre Abbat a =E9crit&nbsp;:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;=
">There is a lojban-fr mailing list you may be interested in. There's also =
a=20
<br>recording somewhere of several of us at last year's jbonunsla singing "=
ni'o=20
<br>le bi'u cmalu bloti ze'epu naku xe klama". We weren't sure what to do=
=20
<br>with "Oh=E9 matelot navigue sur les flots", though.
<br>
<br></blockquote><div>I was aware of the French mailing list but I think th=
ere is less people looking at it than the English one (so less potential an=
swers to my questions, either by asking directly or by googling archives). =
By the way, I've only managed to get the archive (http://mail.lojban.org/li=
sts/lojban-fr/) that stops in late 2011 with some messages talking about re=
surrecting the list. So what is its status? Is is still active?</div><div>&=
nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left=
: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">This computer-scien=
ce term "class" is definitely not "klesi". A possible word=20
<br>for the concept is "gaurtarmi", "a form of instances that do things". M=
ethods=20
<br>and members could be then gaurpau fa'u cadypau. "lo gaurtarmi cu cerda =
fi lo=20
<br>drata gaurtarmi" sounds fine to me. You can indicate a definition=20
<br>with "ca'edai" (it's a definition, but I didn't define it).<br>
<br></blockquote><div>Thanks for the help. I understand the word you sugges=
t and the example you give. In a non artificial language I would have looke=
d in a dictionary and even with a low level in the language I could have bu=
ild a clumsy but hopefully understandable sentence. Here you made the word =
for me. To your mind, is a very good knowledge of the grammar and basis wor=
ds (gismo and cmavo) enough to be able to build new words as you did or are=
 only linguists have the experience and intuition to do this?&nbsp;I don't =
know whether you are a linguist, I just assume you are, as founders of lojb=
an.</div><div>Why klesi could not be used, maybe mixed with skami in an oth=
er tanru, or simply with x2 always dropped and x3 giving directly the defin=
ition as in "Point is a class with 2 numbers, coordinate x and coordinate y=
"? Point would klesi1,&nbsp;2 numbers, coordinate x and coordinate y, klesi=
3. I am not trying to convince you klesi is the right word, I'd like to und=
erstand why you dismissed it. Another idea would be the lojban meaning "a f=
orm of instances containing things", highlighting the members instead of th=
e methods as your definition does.</div><div>If we imagine that a world for=
 "class" is eventually in the "official dictionary" of lojban in 2050, when=
 lojban is spoken by millions of people (let's dream a bit...), would it be=
 the result of specialist discussions during several years? or the people w=
riting the most on the subject kind-of imposing their choice?</div><div><br=
></div><div>Sincerely,</div><div>Bruno</div><div><br></div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">Pierre
<br>--=20
<br>Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar.
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.c=
om/d/msg/lojban/-/r1jQpSHWdvoJ">https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/r1=
jQpSHWdvoJ</a>.<br />=20
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



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