Like homeomorphism of a mug and a torus. If you slow= ly change the shape you'll get {kabri} out of {djine}. So where djine ends = and kabri starts?

On Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:44:37 PM UTC+4,= clifford wrote:

As usual for English, the "It's all = Greek to me" gets its boost from Shakespeare (Julius Caesar in the discussion about JC thrice refusing the cr= own), but during various situations other versions have been popular: "It's= all Dutch to me", "You might as well be talking Hottentot" and so on. = ; The Shakespeare case has originally an anti-elitist component, too (could= n't use plain old Latin, could he), which furthers the plot. But the = general pattern of blaming incomprehension on known of but unintelligible l= anguage is pretty general. Ithkuil (I'm never sure I spell it right) = certainly qualifies. But, of course, successful metaphors rely on com= mon cultural ties and -- despite the widespread pattern -- these may be lac= king here. The hearer may not know about Ithkuil or of it fabled (but real) complexity or may not recognize t= hat what is being talked about is clearly NOT a specimen of Ithkuil (there = was a cartoon once of a person confronted with some classic Greek inscripti= on and dismissing it by saying it is all Greek to him). We can, of co= urse, mark the usage as non-literal and force another (but what other?) rea= ding. But that really does go against the whole idea of a metaphor an= d makes Lojban out to be the kind of narrow, literal, robotic language that= external critics take it to be (even Spock had a sense of humor, though a = rather elusive one).

From: selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de= >
To: lojban@googlegroups.com <= br> Sent: Thursday, July 26,= 2012 8:04 AM
Subject: R= e: [lojban] Re: It's Greek to me

Am 26.07.2012 06:58, schrieb Gleki Arxokuna:
> I understood the joke.= pe'i metaphorical expressions are possible in Lojban but must be clearly d= efined
> to prevent culture-specific misunderstanding.

If you = define a metaphor that way, it's not really a metaphor anymore. You only ge= t the full effect if .itkuil means the language and then say things like {x= u di'u .itkuile} to express your confusion. Of course metaphors are fine, a= nd when they are not obvious, you can mark them with pe'a.

> In t= he Netherlands and Russia they say "It's Chinese to me" in such situations.=

In Germany, people say "das kommt mir spanisch vor" =3D "this seems= spanish to me" to exress not-understanding or that something is odd. Using= foreign languages in such metaphors is common all over the planet, so usin= g .itkuil (or any other non-lojban language, even though the comical effect= is greater with .itkuil, it being another conlang and known for its complexity) will do the job. Again, use pe'a or zo'o when you aren't sure = people will get it.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

-- pilno zo le xu .i= lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo

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