Received: from mail-vc0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]:33128) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SunQr-0004bO-Lt; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:30:44 -0700 Received: by vcbfl10 with SMTP id fl10sf3777533vcb.16 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:30:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-ct-class:x-ct-score:x-ct-refid:x-ct-spam :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:organization :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=rROMoh53qfxMkJV5blM28xN73yvuin3UEgQQOOxMHYc=; b=dy9V5OBB3Zi47Lfk6VDrHFCPHnBVtNiQUnkI8EhDKzL6GROI+9v7KAbzIDYuysLjWO FEIw0gTcsUOazjpRem5Kn/3/VhvonH4eDTaaONLOZZaffjZ1LHYxO9UtSmqtg6s59nN/ 0ajdkfHZcGd4geH4kuTnQhcXTAaaC3nPKH8d0= Received: by 10.224.182.145 with SMTP id cc17mr377732qab.0.1343406622886; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:30:22 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.175.169 with SMTP id ba41ls4064519qcb.5.gmail; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.59.73 with SMTP id k9mr3584352qah.4.1343406621420; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.59.73 with SMTP id k9mr3584351qah.4.1343406621410; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eastrmfepo101.cox.net (eastrmfepo101.cox.net. [68.230.241.213]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id k34si461514qcz.1.2012.07.27.09.30.21; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.213 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.241.213; Received: from eastrmimpo305.cox.net ([68.230.241.237]) by eastrmfepo101.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.04.00 201-2260-137-20101110) with ESMTP id <20120727163021.WTZS18243.eastrmfepo101.cox.net@eastrmimpo305.cox.net> for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 12:30:21 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.101] ([70.187.237.100]) by eastrmimpo305.cox.net with bizsmtp id fUWL1j0092AfMYu02UWLYA; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 12:30:20 -0400 X-CT-Class: Clean X-CT-Score: 0.00 X-CT-RefID: str=0001.0A020202.5012C21C.0134,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-CT-Spam: 0 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=TycAcXFnMgfewfW7IdRdPkFeuwtv4OUfnOBhJyA0zfE= c=1 sm=1 a=YsUzL_8ObRgA:10 a=krgvouvnBlUA:10 a=xmHE3fpoGJwA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=MQZuvjT3xUZLKv0gclfWMg==:17 a=8YJikuA2AAAA:8 a=CeelJMVubHGODOXyrH4A:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=dxBpO5_FDU0A:10 a=MQZuvjT3xUZLKv0gclfWMg==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <5012C257.4050808@lojban.org> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 12:31:19 -0400 From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" Organization: The Logical Language Group, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Lojban wall of complexity (beginner thoughts) References: <6ec49d33-fc7d-4c8b-8422-9e99a21f3f1f@googlegroups.com> <201207242244.28975.phma@phma.optus.nu> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.213 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Bruno Durin wrote: > Thanks for the help. I understand the word you suggest and the example > you give. In a non artificial language I would have looked in a > dictionary and even with a low level in the language I could have build > a clumsy but hopefully understandable sentence. Here you made the word > for me. To your mind, is a very good knowledge of the grammar and basis > words (gismo and cmavo) enough to be able to build new words as you did > or are only linguists have the experience and intuition to do this? I > don't know whether you are a linguist, I just assume you are, as > founders of lojban. As one of the main founders of Lojban, I freely admit to not being a linguist - never a course in the subject, though I've read a few books now - but after starting on Lojban. Indeed, since you are bilingual in English and French (and perhaps others), you are more of a linguist than I am. (I have some rudimentary Russian, but not nearly as good as your English, and I didn't even know that when Lojban started.) It was expressly our intent that ordinary language users make up new words as needed to express themselves. lujvo compounds supposedly convey much of their meaning simply by decomposing the compound into its source roots. There might be some confusion about the place structure you intend, but that can be clarified by interaction (or in a written work, one can attach a list of coined words and the intended place structure). An ad-hoc "Type 3" fu'ivla borrowing can be borrowed based on a word from your own language, by lojbanizing the spelling and pronunciation, and attaching a categorizing rafsi on the front. There are simple rules for this that prevent word-formation problems, so that it can be done with little linguistic skill. ad-hoc words will work for communications. Those words which people find useful will be reused by others, though possibly modified in form or place structure. Ideally, a dictionary would include only those words used by many people, though in starting the language that hasn't been practical. So, go ahead and invent words, and just be prepared for someone to ask you to clarify, if they are unclear in meaning. Even the most skilled among us will sometimes make poor words, but language is in nature interactive and we learn from making such mistakes. lojbab -- Bob LeChevalier lojbab@lojban.org www.lojban.org President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.