Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]:51291)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhD42N-ABRoE6jSggA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1SwDUt-0006Qq-QU; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:32:40 -0700
Received: by yenl13 with SMTP id l13sf7866686yen.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:32:25 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=b+1K1P0miuhJufGecIkMnKxy5GpeH9TlKtjrD243OtU=;
        b=J30HHDU6lYhQQHa7DBCjCCvTjjImzkh0Y33EarBU2GPfANtOEHM/IJ8yhfVKnxyvq7
         luG90/oSU+lPjWSifH8UcxppppHOgSYKpIpmzsIBLU6vaRAnLta65ge2r2KSUm0NrYh4
         SVl3LinGLag+Ayg+xLffTTLw3PlMa2rogMMlg=
Received: by 10.52.155.207 with SMTP id vy15mr1433572vdb.13.1343745144802;
        Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:32:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.220.157.82 with SMTP id a18ls182552vcx.3.gmail; Tue, 31 Jul
 2012 07:32:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.58.161.237 with SMTP id xv13mr926464veb.33.1343745144364;
        Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:32:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.58.161.237 with SMTP id xv13mr926463veb.33.1343745144314;
        Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:32:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-vb0-f50.google.com (mail-vb0-f50.google.com [209.85.212.50])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dy2si45941vdb.1.2012.07.31.07.32.24
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:32:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.50;
Received: by mail-vb0-f50.google.com with SMTP id l1so7180518vba.23
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:32:24 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.52.65.9 with SMTP id t9mr12451866vds.88.1343745144211; Tue, 31
 Jul 2012 07:32:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.58.68.42 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:32:24 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <97bf303e-12c1-45ad-821d-10cbf1113638@googlegroups.com>
References: <97bf303e-12c1-45ad-821d-10cbf1113638@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 10:32:24 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKOEKkRadgdoNHP42CX_BF-1jFs8Ht4gPwttiphQUsMCkQ+H=w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Parsing lujvo
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.50 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3071cdfefd471d04c6210b28
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

--20cf3071cdfefd471d04c6210b28
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 11:05 PM, la vinsent. <pva003@gmail.com> wrote:

> coi rodo,
>
>          I'm relatively new to lojban and have a question about lujvo.
> Since there are so many rafsi, how is it reasonable to assume that others,
> even those who are "fluent", would be able to mentally parse the lujvo into
> its rafsi parts and understand which brivla the rafsi is short for in
> normal conversation?  I do not think that the human brain's language
> centers are capable of this type of language processing, at least not at a
> reasonable speed.  Sure, you can figure out lujvo, but not quickly enough
> to have a conversation using lujvo made up on the spot, only lujvo that are
> commonly used.
>
> co'o rodo
>
>
>     While it is true that even realtively fluent lojbanists might have
difficulties spontaneously decomposing ad hoc lujvo composed entirely of
 obscure rafsi, those that are more commonly used -- gau, mau, cau, bi'o,
pre, pli, xag, dei, mro, etc. present no difficulties and easily
understood, and context can easily refresh your memory if you can't
remember a more obscure rafsi, since they are limited to being letters in
the original gismu (unless it's a cmavo-derived rafsi, which can be more
cahllenging).     It's no different than, for example, an English speaker
seeing the word "subdermal" for the first time.  For example, I just came
across the word "temsepcau" for the first time,  in the Snow White story,
and recognized immediately as temci+sepli+claxu, (time
interval-separation-lack), but I admit I hadn't the foggiest idea what the
lujvo itself meant, and had to look it up.

                       --gejyspa

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.


--20cf3071cdfefd471d04c6210b28
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at=
 11:05 PM, la vinsent. <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pva003@gmail=
.com" target=3D"_blank">pva003@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex">
coi rodo,<br><br>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I&#39;m relatively new to lojban =
and have a question about lujvo.=A0 Since there are so many rafsi, how is i=
t reasonable to assume that others, even those who are &quot;fluent&quot;, =
would be able to mentally parse the lujvo into its rafsi parts and understa=
nd which brivla the rafsi is short for in normal conversation?=A0 I do not =
think that the human brain&#39;s language centers are capable of this type =
of language processing, at least not at a reasonable speed.=A0 Sure, you ca=
n figure out lujvo, but not quickly enough to have a conversation using luj=
vo made up on the spot, only lujvo that are commonly used.<br>
<br>co&#39;o rodo<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br><br>

<p></p><br></font></span></blockquote><div>=A0 =A0 While it is true that ev=
en realtively fluent lojbanists might have difficulties spontaneously decom=
posing ad hoc lujvo composed entirely of =A0obscure rafsi, those that are m=
ore commonly used -- gau, mau, cau, bi&#39;o, pre, pli, xag, dei, mro, etc.=
 present no difficulties and easily understood, and context can easily refr=
esh your memory if you can&#39;t remember a more obscure rafsi, since they =
are limited to being letters in the original gismu (unless it&#39;s a cmavo=
-derived rafsi, which can be more cahllenging). =A0 =A0 It&#39;s no differe=
nt than, for example, an English speaker seeing the word &quot;subdermal&qu=
ot; for the first time.=A0=A0For example, I just came across the word &quot=
;temsepcau&quot; for the first time, =A0in the Snow White story, and recogn=
ized immediately as temci+sepli+claxu, (time interval-separation-lack), but=
 I admit I hadn&#39;t the foggiest idea what the lujvo itself meant, and ha=
d to look it up.</div>
<div><br></div><div>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejysp=
a</div><div><br></div></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



--20cf3071cdfefd471d04c6210b28--