Received: from mail-ee0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]:45191) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SwkN8-0006v8-6U; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:38:53 -0700 Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49sf3864503eek.16 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:38:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=rSJQfLCBae97rt1aCckE5+iDtM4iVdDk8dcX1TAMk34=; b=R/5DAi1M61oSkxsKgXk55LSNi3SjyeZM88xaFBdH1JEj7mRx7ujVafyk3X5qu3pNu6 F+LnHYrm85mQ1ZZeRqXNfvYLjVPkp1FCe9xwGC1AvpLAAS2VObwitaXSij1V1r/QyrEJ rBJRtEanPKWCjWAxjvAc2SCk2BRJj5XzUkMUI= Received: by 10.180.105.232 with SMTP id gp8mr8718wib.0.1343871514438; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:38:34 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.209.195 with SMTP id s43ls4874eeo.5.gmail; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.184.71 with SMTP id r47mr13592539eem.4.1343871512530; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.184.71 with SMTP id r47mr13592538eem.4.1343871512519; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ee0-f50.google.com (mail-ee0-f50.google.com [74.125.83.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 46si6191770eed.1.2012.08.01.18.38.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.50; Received: by eekc50 with SMTP id c50so2116526eek.37 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:38:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.175.130 with SMTP id z2mr24944052eel.0.1343871512414; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.178.196 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:38:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 22:38:32 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] racli/ralci From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 9:50 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: > 5 vowels > 17 consonants > 48 initial clusters > {11 unvoiced consonants, 10 voiced consonants, (m, l, n, and r get double > counted) 9 "special exceptions": cs sc jz zj cx kx xc xk mz are all > forbidden, and no double consonants}->191 internal clusters > gives exactly 20315 gimtai. This avoids only collisions of final vowels, and > permits every other apparent "collision", including all those listed in the > CLL. These restrictions, to within a very crude approximation, probably > divide the number given above by something between 2 and 3, giving a number > between 6700 and 10000, probably closer to the former given that most of the > collisions involve two letters. I don't think so. "blanu" for example will block "planu", but it won't block "plana", so by playing with the final vowel you can probably accomodate all 20315 four-letter initial forms. > An interesting computation: assuming every combination of 2 vowels and 3 > consonants can serve as exactly one gismu (which lets words differ only in > their final vowel; not doing so makes the current number of gismu just > barely fit), you get 6800 possible words. Three _different_ consonants and two _different_ vowels, right? But you can have gismu with two repeated consonants or vowels (e.g. "nanba"). So I think the number for different combinations comes out as 14280. > Almost all such combinations work, > too: ignoring the 9 special exceptions, any 2 vowels obviously work, and any > group of 3 consonants will have at least 2 with have the same voicing. I would guess around 5-10% are blocked by the special exceptions. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.