From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> To: lojban@googlegroups= .com
Sent: Thursday, August 2,= 2012 4:27 AM
Subject:= Re: [lojban] racli/ralci

Erm, woops, no, it doesn't force the letters to b= e distinct, as you can see from the very beginning :)

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 5:10 AM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@g= mail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Jo= rge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think so. "blanu" for example will block "planu", but it won'= t
block "plana", so by playing with the final vowel you can probably
accomodate all 20315 four-letter initial forms.
=
I see what you mean. It would be interesting to attempt this computatio= nally; the "transitivity" if you will of the blocking rules makes this seem= like it could be subtler than either of us are seeing. You're closer to ri= ght than I was, though, if not actually right.

> An interesting computation: assuming every combination of 2 vowels and= 3
> consonants can serve as exactly one gismu (which lets words differ onl= y in
> their final vowel; not doing so makes the current number of gismu just=
> barely fit), you get 6800 possible words.

Three _different_ consonants and two _different_ vowels, right? But you can have gismu with two repeated consonants or vowels (e.g.
"nanba"). So I think the number for different combinations comes out
as 14280.

Good point, I didn't = think of that possibility. I actually just wrote some code that puts down a= gismu list with all letters distinct. It's pretty readily extensible; in p= articular I can easily change the order of the nesting, which significantly= alters the words that actually get generated. A variant in which initial c= onsonants vary first, then the cluster, then the initial vowel, then the fi= nal vowel, with no initial clusters whatsoever, results in http://pastebin.= com/SYfHQf8p, which I found pretty interesting.

> Almost all such combinations work,
> too: ignoring the 9 special exceptions, any 2 vowels obviously work, a= nd any
> group of 3 consonants will have at least 2 with have the same voicing.=

I would guess around 5-10% are blocked by the special exceptions.
=

Well, in the slightly naive computation earlier= , it's 9/(191+48) =3D about 3.8%.

<= br>mu'o mi'e latros

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