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Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 11:15:30 +0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Suggestion for a new animacy marker in Lojban.
From: Veijo Vilva <veijo.vilva@gmail.com>
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On 4 August 2012 10:48, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

It's all based on the analysis of existing languages.

Sure, English example is not fine.

But Navajo for instance has the following hierarchy.

humans/lightning =E2=86=92 infants/big animals =E2=86=92 med-size animals =
=E2=86=92 small animals =E2=86=92
> insects =E2=86=92 natural forces =E2=86=92 inanimate objects/plants =E2=
=86=92 abstractions


In Finnish we don't have separate pronouns for the two sexes, and in
informal language these days it's more like a norm to use an inanimate
pronoun for everything. Japanese has no "real" pronouns and quite often
does just fine by eliding the subject or the object or both of them and
letting the context resolve the meaning. We have a scale from nil to what
ever complexity the human mind has deemed culturally necessary.


>
>> On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 12:35 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <
>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> *Suggestion for a new animacy marker in Lojban.*
>>>
>>> Many if not most languages divide all predicates into levels of animacy=
.
>>> English, for instance, has at least two levels. These are the pronouns
>>> for them
>>> 1. Animate. He/she
>>> 2. Inanimate. It
>>>
>>> This allows quickly determine agents of most actions.
>>> Example:
>>> The woman was looking at the mirror. It was ugly.
>>> Let's try it in Lojban.
>>> {lo ninmu pu ca'o catlu lo minra .i ta pu tolmelbi}
>>>
>>

Here I'd tend towards the Japanese solution of eliding the subject or
rather go a step further and elide even the tense:

  {lo ninmu pu ca'o catlu lo minra .i tolmelbi}

  mu'o mi'e veion

--=20

  web site: http://galactinus.net/vilva/
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<div dir=3D"ltr">On 4 August 2012 10:48, Gleki Arxokuna <span dir=3D"ltr">&=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is=
.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
It&#39;s all based on the analysis of existing languages.</blockquote><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">Sure, English example is not fine.</blockquote><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
But Navajo for instance has the following hierarchy.</blockquote><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">humans/lightning =E2=86=92 infants/big animals =E2=86=
=92 med-size animals =E2=86=92 small animals =E2=86=92 insects =E2=86=92 na=
tural forces =E2=86=92 inanimate objects/plants =E2=86=92 abstractions</blo=
ckquote>
<div><br></div><div>In Finnish we don&#39;t have separate pronouns for the =
two sexes, and in informal language these days it&#39;s more like a norm to=
 use an inanimate pronoun for everything. Japanese has no &quot;real&quot; =
pronouns and quite often does just fine by eliding the subject or the objec=
t or both of them and letting the context resolve the meaning. We have a sc=
ale from nil to what ever complexity the human mind has deemed culturally n=
ecessary.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h5"><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 12:35 AM, Gleki Arxok=
una <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex">

<div><b>Suggestion for a new animacy marker in Lojban.</b></div><div><br></=
div><div>Many if not most languages divide all predicates into levels of an=
imacy.</div><div>English, for instance, has at least two levels. These are =
the pronouns for them</div>

<div>1. Animate. He/she</div><div>2. Inanimate. It</div><div><br></div><div=
>This allows quickly determine agents of most actions.</div><div>Example:</=
div><div>The woman was looking at the mirror. It was ugly.</div><div>Let&#3=
9;s try it in Lojban.</div>

<div>{lo ninmu pu ca&#39;o catlu lo minra .i ta pu tolmelbi}</div></blockqu=
ote></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0<=
/div><div>Here I&#39;d tend towards the Japanese solution of eliding the su=
bject or rather go a step further and elide even the tense:</div>
<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0{lo ninmu pu ca&#39;o catlu lo minra .i tol=
melbi}</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 mu&#39;o mi&#39;e veion</div><div><b=
r></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>=C2=A0 web site: <a href=3D"http:=
//galactinus.net/vilva/" target=3D"_blank">http://galactinus.net/vilva/</a>=
<div>
=C2=A0 on Google+: <a href=3D"https://plus.google.com/106533767817816079660=
/posts" target=3D"_blank">https://plus.google.com/106533767817816079660/pos=
ts</a></div></div><br>
</div></div>

<p></p>

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