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Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 07:26:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Ancient Greek, free word order and the same FA two times
 in a bridi
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On Saturday, August 4, 2012 6:12:18 PM UTC+4, pafcribe wrote:
>
> This has come up a couple times before.
>
> I don't think it's a matter of "we need to figure out how to do this 
> because other languages do it".  I think it's more so a matter of "the 
> grammar allows this form (fe lo barda cu broda fe lo gerku), we should 
> probably decide just what it means".
>
> I like what you're suggesting Gleki, but I disagree about the connector. 
>  In cases where a word is kind of being magicked in, I would almost always 
> prefer that that word be as vague as possible so as to include as broad of 
> a scope of meaning as is possible.  
>
> So I'd rather it be {ju'e}.
>
Oh, probably. If i only knew what {ju'e} really means. It's even not 
mentioned in the CLL.  No examples of it's usage.
{mi viska lo barda ju'e gerku} = {mi viska lo barda .i mi viska lo gerku}?

>
>
> On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 3:21 AM, vitci'i <celestialcognition@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On 08/04/2012 02:05 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
>> > Ancient Greek and Russian have free word order. It means that instead of
>> > "Yesterday I saw a big dog" you can literally say "Big yesterday saw 
>> dog I"
>> > due to case markers.
>> >
>> > Lojban currently can't split sumti apart.
>> >
>> > {mi viska lo barda gerku} = {fe lo barda ku viska fe lo gerku fa mi}?
>> > This issue remains unsettled.
>> > ju'i jbobadna how are we going to translate Homer's magnificent style?
>> > Again distorting his work of art like it is being done when translating 
>> it
>> > to English? (Russian has other drawbacks in grammar).
>> >
>> > *Therefore I suggest that if we have the same FA more than once in a 
>> bridi
>> > it means that we can join them back with {je}. So*
>> > *{fe lo barda viska fe lo gerku fa mi} = {mi viska lo barda je gerku}.*
>> > *If you need to use joi, fa'u, jo'u or other connectives such 
>> partitioning
>> > is not possible.*
>> >
>> >
>> > pei?
>>
>> No language should strive to have every feature of every other language.
>> It's okay for lojban to be its own thing.
>>
>> If a majority of the source languages have a feature that lojban lacks,
>> then that may indicate a problem, especially if English is in the
>> minority that lojban resembles.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "lojban" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
>>
>>
>

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<br><br>On Saturday, August 4, 2012 6:12:18 PM UTC+4, pafcribe wrote:<block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-le=
ft: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">This has come up a couple times befo=
re.<div><br></div><div>I don't think it's a matter of "we need to figure ou=
t how to do this because other languages do it". &nbsp;I think it's more so=
 a matter of "the grammar allows this form (fe lo barda cu broda fe lo gerk=
u), we should probably decide just what it means".</div>

<div><br></div><div>I like what you're suggesting Gleki, but I disagree abo=
ut the connector. &nbsp;In cases where a word is kind of being magicked in,=
 I would almost always prefer that that word be as vague as possible so as =
to include as broad of a scope of meaning as is possible. &nbsp;</div>

<div><br></div><div>So I'd rather it be {ju'e}.<br></div></blockquote><div>=
Oh, probably. If i only knew what {ju'e} really means. It's even not mentio=
ned in the CLL. &nbsp;No examples of it's usage.</div><div>{mi viska lo bar=
da ju'e gerku} =3D&nbsp;{mi viska lo barda .i mi viska lo gerku}?</div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-le=
ft-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: so=
lid; padding-left: 1ex; "><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></blockqu=
ote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex=
;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote">On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 3:21 AM, vitci'i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:celestialcognition@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">celestialcog=
nition@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>On 08/04/2012 02:05 AM, Gleki Arxokuna =
wrote:<br>
&gt; Ancient Greek and Russian have free word order. It means that instead =
of<br>
&gt; "Yesterday I saw a big dog" you can literally say "Big yesterday saw d=
og I"<br>
&gt; due to case markers.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Lojban currently can't split sumti apart.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; {mi viska lo barda gerku} =3D {fe lo barda ku viska fe lo gerku fa mi}=
?<br>
&gt; This issue remains unsettled.<br>
&gt; ju'i jbobadna how are we going to translate Homer's magnificent style?=
<br>
&gt; Again distorting his work of art like it is being done when translatin=
g it<br>
&gt; to English? (Russian has other drawbacks in grammar).<br>
&gt;<br>
</div>&gt; *Therefore I suggest that if we have the same FA more than once =
in a bridi<br>
&gt; it means that we can join them back with {je}. So*<br>
&gt; *{fe lo barda viska fe lo gerku fa mi} =3D {mi viska lo barda je gerku=
}.*<br>
&gt; *If you need to use joi, fa'u, jo'u or other connectives such partitio=
ning<br>
&gt; is not possible.*<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; pei?<br>
<br>
No language should strive to have every feature of every other language.<br=
>
It's okay for lojban to be its own thing.<br>
<br>
If a majority of the source languages have a feature that lojban lacks,<br>
then that may indicate a problem, especially if English is in the<br>
minority that lojban resembles.<br>
<div><br>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br>
</div><div><div>To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojb=
an@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
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subscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban+unsubscribe@<wbr>googl=
egroups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/<wbr>group/=
lojban?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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