Received: from mail-pb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]:45833) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SyQae-0001C7-0l; Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:55:44 -0700 Received: by pbbrp2 with SMTP id rp2sf955443pbb.16 for ; Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:55:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=PVIMSDi8lANVaLQO0dX8L8LhTnvZNCoS+DPfv61zgVg=; b=JsHMGAM9WTevK5m/FQvAVL248DsyOTN4BeluBj6Xz9S0okprO/pzXnMX7tGtJNfTnn NhPPhqkKDve9PleVM/+IHSOinf1dMykMefIJXlPa9jsioSQ2GcQexfH4dPpk+fDhnUH0 VBAj5tJpMSZRTDV1WJd3COgJHTL7bKA27KHBw= Received: by 10.68.196.136 with SMTP id im8mr605042pbc.5.1344266685960; Mon, 06 Aug 2012 08:24:45 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.226.132 with SMTP id rs4ls5568123pbc.6.gmail; Mon, 06 Aug 2012 08:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.189.228 with SMTP id gl4mr607991pbc.4.1344266685329; Mon, 06 Aug 2012 08:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 08:24:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com Cc: jjllambias@gmail.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <8a3f7b1f-2782-40ef-9576-b10c4f464168@googlegroups.com> References: <20000625000846.27040.qmail@hotmail.com> <8a3f7b1f-2782-40ef-9576-b10c4f464168@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] RE:Trivalent Logics MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_414_16884779.1344266682309" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_414_16884779.1344266682309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sunday, August 5, 2012 6:22:48 PM UTC+4, djandus wrote: > > I knew nothing of the existence of trivalent logic before this thread, but > there is something I can say. > > On Sunday, August 5, 2012 3:18:46 AM UTC-5, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: >> >> OK. May be a short tutorial for newbies (non-experts in logic) what this >> is all about? >> May be some kinda table with normal evidentials and your proposals in >> another? >> http://aymara.org/biblio/html/igr/igr3.html looks perfect but >> incomprehensible for ordinary ponies. >> > I want something that a 5y.o. could understand. >> > For those interested in diving in, I started getting an idea by instead > glancing at wikiponia and > then reading over the Aymara document. Also for those diving in, it's > useful to know that the author of that other link starts with an > introduction, proceeds to some basic description of bivalent logic when the > bullets show up, gets into the nitty-gritty description of bivalent logic > when the tables show up, and finally gets to the trivalent stuff with > "Representation of trivalent truth-values" > >> >> *I BELIEVE THAT IT'S ONE OF FEW GREAT IDEAS THAT LOJBAN CURRENTLY LACKS.* >> So actually I'm quite interested in it. >> Although I don't like redefining the meaning of any cmavo including CAI. >> > I would like to mention here that rather than redefining CAI, you could: > > - define an experimental cmavo as "a trivalent logic marker" and use > CAI on it as one was proposing to use CAI on ja'a > - define a couple of base experimental cmavo to represent a few of the > base trivalent logics, as was done in lojban with the bivalent logical > connectives, and then define how CAI alter them. > > > Past that, I actually have a fundamental question that, when answered, > should probably help a newbie jump into discussion. What are the examples > (in lojban) of instances what these terms refer to: modal functor, > connective (two-variable) functor. > > Honestly, I find it something that will not be of particular use to me, > Imagine or not but the whole Lojban is of no use for me. And for most inhabitants of the Earth. > but it sounds pretty cool if {rodo} manage to get it working for > yourselves. Thus, make an orthogonal usage of Lojban, please. > If I only knew how to explain all that stuff in plain language. I understand it in formulae but when it comes to choosing words in real conversation it'll be a nightmare for me. I guess we just need to produce a bunch of sentences and learn them by rot in order to use these new cmavo IRL. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/0MsVP200yUQJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. ------=_Part_414_16884779.1344266682309 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sunday, August 5, 2012 6:22:48 PM UTC+4, djandus wrote:I knew nothing of the existence of triv= alent logic before this thread, but there is something I can say.

On= Sunday, August 5, 2012 3:18:46 AM UTC-5, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
OK. May be a short tutorial for newbies (non-ex= perts in logic) what this is all about?
May be some kinda table with no= rmal evidentials and your proposals in another?
http://aymara.org/= biblio/html/igr/igr3.html  looks perfect but incomprehensible= for ordinary ponies. 
I want something that a 5y.o. could understand.
For those interested in diving in, I started getting an idea by= instead glancing at wikiponia and then reading over the Aymara= document. Also for those diving in, it's useful to know that the author of= that other link starts with an introduction, proceeds to some basic descri= ption of bivalent logic when the bullets show up, gets into the nitty-gritt= y description of bivalent logic when the tables show up, and finally gets t= o the trivalent stuff with "Representation of trivalent truth-values"
=

I BELIEVE TH= AT IT'S ONE OF FEW GREAT IDEAS THAT LOJBAN CURRENTLY LACKS.
S= o actually I'm quite interested in it.
Although I don't like rede= fining the meaning of any cmavo including CAI.
I= would like to mention here that rather than redefining CAI, you could:
  • define an experimental cmavo as "a trivalent logic marker" a= nd use CAI on it as one was proposing to use CAI on ja'a
  • define= a couple of base experimental cmavo to represent a few of the base trivale= nt logics, as was done in lojban with the bivalent logical connectives, and= then define how CAI alter them.

Past that, I actually have a fundamental question= that, when answered, should probably help a newbie jump into discussion. W= hat are the examples (in lojban) of instances what these terms refer to: mo= dal functor, connective (two-variable) functor.

Honestly, I find it something that will not be of particular use to me,<= /span>
Imagine or not but the whole Lojban is of no = use for me. And for most inhabitants of the Earth. 
but = it sounds pretty cool if {rodo} manage to get it working for yourselves. Th= us, make an orthogonal usage of Lojban, please.
If I only knew how to explain all that stuff in plain language. I unders= tand it in formulae but when it comes to choosing words in real conversatio= n  it'll be a nightmare for me.
I guess we just need to prod= uce a bunch of sentences and learn them by rot in order to use these new cm= avo IRL.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/0M= sVP200yUQJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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