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Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 08:20:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban] RE:Trivalent Logics
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On Sunday, August 5, 2012 5:49:49 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what the Aymara population is, but linguists -- including a=
=20
> number of native speakers of Aymara who have gone on to graduate degrees =
in=20
> linguistics -- agree that Guzman's interpretation of the data (much of=20
> which they say he also has wrong) is incorrect.  In short, Aymara does no=
t=20
> use trivalent logic, though it does have a number of --to us -- unfamilia=
r=20
> epistemic modalities.=20
>
If so the task to implement trivalent logic is no longer of utter=20
importance for me. I thought that the inventors of Aymara were much wiser.
uinai they were not.=20
ta'o Why implementing this logic won't solve any problems? What can solve=
=20
them? Quaternary logic? Do you have any thoughts of how to implement it?

>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 5, 2012, at 3:20 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>=
=20
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Saturday, August 4, 2012 8:48:08 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, with the unlikely exception of Aymara, it is hard to imagine what=
=20
>> this would look like in practice.
>>
> Why not? Millions of people use it while speaking the language that is=20
> highly naturalistic.
> Just relexing Aymara to Lojban should be quite easy. It's all the matter=
=20
> of how to teach people to use new but better cmavo.
> =20
>
>>   Juggling even the six basics xorxes offers (or the minimal three)=20
>> probably pushes one's understanding pretty far, unless you have a very=
=20
>> concrete notion of what the third value is (and then you may be surprise=
d=20
>> at what the system offers you in some cases).  We seem to be better with=
=20
>> fuzzy (but let's don't get started on that!) than clear-cut triads or mo=
re=20
>> when it comes to dealing with the world.
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>> *From:* Jorge Llamb=EDas < <jjllambias@gmail.com>jjllambias@gmail.com>
>> *To:* <lojban@googlegroups.com>lojban@googlegroups.com=20
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 4, 2012 11:26 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [lojban] RE:Trivalent Logics
>> =20
>> On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Gleki Arxokuna
>> < <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > doi xorxes xu do pu troci lo nu pilno lo cimei logji xusycmuma'o ca'o=
=20
>> lo nu
>> > tavla?
>>
>> .i no roi go'i
>>
>> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>>
>> --=20
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group=
s=20
>> "lojban" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to <lojban@googlegroups.com>
>> lojban@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@<unsubs=
cribe@googlegroups.com>
>> googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at=20
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den>http://groups.google.com/
>> group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>>
>>
>>
>>   --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=
=20
> "lojban" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit=20
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/BrVEgpdpPDEJ>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/BrVEgpdpPDEJ.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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>
>

--=20
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<br><br>On Sunday, August 5, 2012 5:49:49 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:<blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left=
: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>I'm not =
sure what the Aymara population is, but linguists -- including a number of =
native speakers of Aymara who have gone on to graduate degrees in linguisti=
cs -- agree that Guzman's interpretation of the data (much of which they sa=
y he also has wrong) is incorrect. &nbsp;In short, Aymara does not use triv=
alent logic, though it does have a number of --to us -- unfamiliar epistemi=
c modalities.<span>&nbsp;</span></div></div></blockquote><div>If so the tas=
k to implement trivalent logic is no longer of utter importance for me. I t=
hought that the inventors of Aymara were much wiser.</div><div>uinai they w=
ere not.&nbsp;</div><div>ta'o&nbsp;Why implementing this logic won't solve =
any problems? What can solve them? Quaternary logic? Do you have any though=
ts of how to implement it?</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;=
"><div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Aug =
5, 2012, at 3:20 AM, Gleki Arxokuna &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><=
br></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><br><br>On Saturday, Aug=
ust 4, 2012 8:48:08 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:t=
imes new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Yeah, with t=
he unlikely exception of Aymara, it is hard to imagine what this would look=
 like in practice.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div>Why not? Milli=
ons of people use it while speaking the language that is highly naturalisti=
c.</div><div>Just relexing Aymara to Lojban should be quite easy. It's all =
the matter of how to teach people to use new but better cmavo.</div><div>&n=
bsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0=
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"color:=
#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif=
;font-size:12pt"><div><span>&nbsp; Juggling even the six basics xorxes offe=
rs (or the minimal three) probably pushes one's understanding pretty far, u=
nless you have a very concrete notion of what the third value is (and then =
you may be surprised at what the system offers you in some cases).&nbsp; We=
 seem to be better with fuzzy (but let's don't get started on that!) than c=
lear-cut triads or more when it comes to dealing with the world.<br></span>=
</div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-family:times new roman,new york,t=
imes,serif;font-size:12pt"> <div style=3D"font-family:times new roman,new y=
ork,times,serif;font-size:12pt"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial" siz=
e=3D"2"> <hr size=3D"1">  <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From:</span><=
/b> Jorge Llamb=EDas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com" target=3D"=
_blank"></a><a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jjlla=
mbias@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span><=
/b> <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank"></a><a hre=
f=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban@googlegroups.=
com</a> <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Saturday,=
 August 4, 2012 11:26 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</=
span></b> Re: [lojban] RE:Trivalent Logics<br> </font> </div> <br>
On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Gleki Arxokuna<br>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gl=
eki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.=
my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br>&gt; doi xorxes xu do pu troci lo nu pilno lo cimei logji xusycmuma'=
o ca'o lo nu<br>&gt; tavla?<br><br>.i no roi go'i<br><br>mu'o mi'e xorxes<b=
r><br>-- <br>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Go=
ogle Groups "lojban" group.<br>To post to this group, send email to <a href=
=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"mailto=
:lojban@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br=
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+<a href=3D"mailto:uns=
ubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">unsubscribe@</a><a href=3D"htt=
p://googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">googlegroup<wbr>s.com</a>.<br>For m=
ore options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/=
lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/"=
 target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/</a>group<wbr>/lojban?hl=3Den.<=
br><br><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></div></blockquote>

<p></p>

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</div></blockquote></div></blockquote>

<p></p>

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