I've lost = something here, I think. 'mu'ei' doesn't say anything about any parti= cular bag, only about the universe of bags (if I am right of thinking of ba= gs as worlds). So to say it is possible that a ball sele= cted from a selected sack in that universe is black doesn't ge= t beyond saying that some balls in some bags are black. If we get to = a particular bag, saying that a selected ball might be black merely means t= hat some balls in that bag are black, but this is no longer a modal claim (= as the other might well not be, if the supply of bags is fixed. (If t= he bags are not the worlds, then I don't follow what is going on, if itis m= eant to be about possible worlds.)

From: Jorge L= lamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 6, 2012 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Revising mu'ei= and CAhA once again. Possible worlds.

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Gleki Arxokuna
<glek= i.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> OK. If no other criti= cism I'll correct it and post it to lojban.org wiki.

Strictly speaking, "ka'e" only says t= hat the bag contains black balls.
It doesn't say whether it also contain= s white balls or not, although
pragmatically one expects that it will, j= ust as when someone says
"some" one pragmatically expects "but not all" = to be true as well.

Similarly "ka'e na" would say that the bag conta= ins white ball, saying
nothing about whether it contains black ones as w= ell.

In order to say that it contains both black and white balls you= may
need something like "su'opame'iro mu'ei", "in some but not all
w= orlds". "May or may not", as opposed to just "may".

I'd put "bi'ai" at the same level as "ka'e", it's not really about
materialization. Tha= t the ball picked is black is just a consequence
of all of them being bl= ack in that bag, so of course the one that
materializes will be as well,= but "bi'ai" has nothing to do with the
materialization itself. Similarl= y it's not all that relevant to "na
ka'e" that the ball picked is white,= it's just a consequence of all of
them being white in that bag.

= > Are there still other voices for mu'ei?

"mu'ei" allows a more f= ine grained description of the contents of the
bags, "so'u mu'ei", "so'o= mu'ei", "so'i mu'ei", "so'e mu'ei", "so'a
mu'ei", "du'e mu'ei", "rau mu= 'ei", "mo'a mu'ei".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--
You received this= message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To= unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+uns= ubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at htt= p://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.