I've lost something here, I think. 'mu'ei' doesn't sa= y anything about any particular bag, only about the universe of bags (if I = am right of thinking of bags as worlds). So to say it is possible tha= t a ball selected from a selected sack in that universe is black doesn't get beyond saying that some balls in some bags are = black. If we get to a particular bag, saying that a selected ball mig= ht be black merely means that some balls in that bag are black, but this is= no longer a modal claim (as the other might well not be, if the supply of = bags is fixed. (If the bags are not the worlds, then I don't follow w= hat is going on, if itis meant to be about possible worlds.)

Bag is a set of possible worlds. One ball i= s one possible world. Bag is present at A-level only.

When you ex= tract one ball (and you can extract one ball only) it becomes This World wi= th no alternatives.

I agree that mu'ei describe A-level and that = mu'ei is more precise due to implementing PA.

<= /span>

From: Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 6, 2012 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Revising mu'ei and CAhA on= ce again. Possible worlds.

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Gleki Arxokuna
<gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
>
> OK. If no other criticism I'll correct it and pos= t it to lojban.org wik= i.

Strictly speaking, "ka'e" only says that the bag contains black b= alls.
It doesn't say whether it also contains white balls or not, althou= gh
pragmatically one expects that it will, just as when someone says
= "some" one pragmatically expects "but not all" to be true as well.

S= imilarly "ka'e na" would say that the bag contains white ball, saying
no= thing about whether it contains black ones as well.

In order to say = that it contains both black and white balls you may
need something like = "su'opame'iro mu'ei", "in some but not all
worlds". "May or may not", as= opposed to just "may".

I'd put "bi'ai" at the same level as "ka'e", it's not really about
materialization. Tha= t the ball picked is black is just a consequence
of all of them being bl= ack in that bag, so of course the one that
materializes will be as well,= but "bi'ai" has nothing to do with the
materialization itself. Similarl= y it's not all that relevant to "na
ka'e" that the ball picked is white,= it's just a consequence of all of
them being white in that bag.

= > Are there still other voices for mu'ei?

"mu'ei" allows a more f= ine grained description of the contents of the
bags, "so'u mu'ei", "so'o= mu'ei", "so'i mu'ei", "so'e mu'ei", "so'a
mu'ei", "du'e mu'ei", "rau mu= 'ei", "mo'a mu'ei".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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