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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 19:13:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Revising mu'ei and CAhA once again. Possible worlds.
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---6906265-1263613691-1344478396=:42791
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But this is a total reworking of {pu'i} and {nu'o}, and {ca'a}, for that ma=
tter.=A0 To be sure, they appear to be mixing aspects and modals, but in fa=
ct hey are just rhetorical flourishes.=A0 Their logical role ({ca'a} doesn'=
t really have one, since it is just {ca}, logically -- or rather the lack o=
f a modal component) is best shown by the conjunctions, since they are hard=
ly common enough logically to need separate forms.=A0 The logical (and usua=
lly language as well) is is whether the event is possible or not, not wheth=
er it is instantiated or not, and, if the event is occurring, even that int=
erest drops out.=20

While I am ignoring it, I still wish someone would explain the bags to me, =
especially what they have to do with anything interesting.



________________________________
 From: Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Revising mu'ei and CAhA once again. Possible worlds.
=20
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com> wro=
te:
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 1:35 AM, Gleki Arxokuna
> <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> anyway, what is in your opinion the difference between {pu'i} and {ca'a}=
?
[...]
> That leaves two interesting meanings without a simple form, that we
> can assign to "pu'i" and "nu'o":
>
> ka'e na je ca'a =3D pu'i
> ka'e je na ca'a =3D nu'o
>
> pu'i: "actually, but not necessarily" or "actually, but possibly not"
> nu'o: "actually not but possibly" or "actually not, but not necessarily n=
ot"

I forgot to mention that this corresponds well with your diagrams:
"pu'i" is a black ball that comes from a bag also containing white
balls, and "nu'o is a white ball that comes from a bag also containing
black balls, so they make reference both to the ball and the bag,
while "ca'a" is just a black ball, and "ka'e" is just a bag containg
black balls.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--=20
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--=20
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>But this i=
s a total reworking of {pu'i} and {nu'o}, and {ca'a}, for that matter.&nbsp=
; To be sure, they appear to be mixing aspects and modals, but in fact hey =
are just rhetorical flourishes.&nbsp; Their logical role ({ca'a} doesn't re=
ally have one, since it is just {ca}, logically -- or rather the lack of a =
modal component) is best shown by the conjunctions, since they are hardly c=
ommon enough logically to need separate forms.&nbsp; The logical (and usual=
ly language as well) is is whether the event is possible or not, not whethe=
r it is instantiated or not, and, if the event is occurring, even that inte=
rest drops out. <br></span></div><div><span>While I am ignoring it, I still=
 wish someone would explain the bags to me, especially what they have to do=
 with anything interesting.<br></span></div><div><br></div>  <div
 style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: =
12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
 font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <hr =
size=3D"1">  <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Jorge Ll=
amb=EDas &lt;jjllambias@gmail.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bo=
ld;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-wei=
ght: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, August 8, 2012 5:54 PM<br> <b><span=
 style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] Revising mu'=
ei and CAhA once again. Possible worlds.<br> </font> </div> <br>
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas &lt;<a ymailto=3D"mailto:j=
jllambias@gmail.com" href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com">jjllambias@gmail.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 1:35 AM, Gleki Arxokuna<b=
r>&gt; &lt;<a ymailto=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" href=3D"mailto:=
gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&g=
t;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; anyway, what is in your opinion the difference between {=
pu'i} and {ca'a}?<br>[...]<br>&gt; That leaves two interesting meanings wit=
hout a simple form, that we<br>&gt; can assign to "pu'i" and "nu'o":<br>&gt=
;<br>&gt; ka'e na je ca'a =3D pu'i<br>&gt; ka'e je na ca'a =3D nu'o<br>&gt;=
<br>&gt; pu'i: "actually, but not necessarily" or "actually, but possibly n=
ot"<br>&gt; nu'o: "actually not but possibly" or "actually not, but not nec=
essarily not"<br><br>I forgot to mention that this corresponds well with yo=
ur diagrams:<br>"pu'i" is a black ball that comes from a bag also containin=
g
 white<br>balls, and "nu'o is a white ball that comes from a bag also conta=
ining<br>black balls, so they make reference both to the ball and the bag,<=
br>while "ca'a" is just a black ball, and "ka'e" is just a bag containg<br>=
black balls.<br><br>mu'o mi'e xorxes<br><br>-- <br>You received this messag=
e because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.<br>To pos=
t to this group, send email to <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com=
" href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>T=
o unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+<a ymailto=3D"mailto:un=
subscribe@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">un=
subscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>For more options, visit this group at ht=
tp://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.<br><br><br><br> </div> </div> =
 </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
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