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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 22:08:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Revising mu'ei and CAhA once again. Possible worlds.
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On Thursday, August 9, 2012 2:54:00 AM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjlla...@gmail.com<java=
script:>>=20
> wrote:=20
> > On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 1:35 AM, Gleki Arxokuna=20
> > <gleki.is...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:=20
> >>=20
> >> anyway, what is in your opinion the difference between {pu'i} and=20
> {ca'a}?=20
> [...]=20
> > That leaves two interesting meanings without a simple form, that we=20
> > can assign to "pu'i" and "nu'o":=20
> >=20
> > ka'e na je ca'a =3D pu'i=20
> > ka'e je na ca'a =3D nu'o=20
> >=20
> > pu'i: "actually, but not necessarily" or "actually, but possibly not"=
=20
> > nu'o: "actually not but possibly" or "actually not, but not necessarily=
=20
> not"=20
>
> I forgot to mention that this corresponds well with your diagrams:=20
> "pu'i" is a black ball that comes from a bag also containing white=20
> balls, and "nu'o is a white ball that comes from a bag also containing=20
> black balls, so they make reference both to the ball and the bag,=20
> while "ca'a" is just a black ball, and "ka'e" is just a bag containg=20
> black balls.=20
>
Your scheme is excellent, doi xorxes. Yes, there is not much difference=20
between your scheme and mine.
Probably, because I based mine on your notes in lojban.org wiki pages on=20
mu'ei, conditionals and CAhA :-)
The wiki doesn't mention {pu'i}. That's why {ca'a} is
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/''ca'ai'',+''ka'ei''+and+''nu'oi',+and+''nau'a''=
=20
not defined correctly (is it {ka'e je ca'a} or {ka'e na je ca'a}?).
But your new scheme is pretty clear.
I wish we could add {da'i} to this scheme.
Anyway, I'm sure that redefining CAhA as xorxes just suggested is a must.

I don't know how to explain my scheme better
but the shortest version of it would be
A-level. {ka'e}
M-level. {nu'o,pu'i}
F-level. {ca'a}

Other topics relating to conditionals are:
1. Relation between {ni'i} and {ganai ... gi}. Needs to be clarified. What=
=20
are your thoughts, John?
2. {va'o} which as wiki mentions is more vague and therefore powerful than=
=20
{ganai ...gi}.

>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes=20
>

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<br><br>On Thursday, August 9, 2012 2:54:00 AM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:<blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left=
: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Jorge =
Llamb=EDas &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mai=
lto=3D"DObK1SwSA-MJ">jjlla...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt; On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 1:35 AM, Gleki Arxokuna
<br>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailt=
o=3D"DObK1SwSA-MJ">gleki.is...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt;&gt;
<br>&gt;&gt; anyway, what is in your opinion the difference between {pu'i} =
and {ca'a}?
<br>[...]
<br>&gt; That leaves two interesting meanings without a simple form, that w=
e
<br>&gt; can assign to "pu'i" and "nu'o":
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; ka'e na je ca'a =3D pu'i
<br>&gt; ka'e je na ca'a =3D nu'o
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; pu'i: "actually, but not necessarily" or "actually, but possibly n=
ot"
<br>&gt; nu'o: "actually not but possibly" or "actually not, but not necess=
arily not"
<br>
<br>I forgot to mention that this corresponds well with your diagrams:
<br>"pu'i" is a black ball that comes from a bag also containing white
<br>balls, and "nu'o is a white ball that comes from a bag also containing
<br>black balls, so they make reference both to the ball and the bag,
<br>while "ca'a" is just a black ball, and "ka'e" is just a bag containg
<br>black balls.
<br></blockquote><div>Your scheme is excellent, doi xorxes. Yes, there is n=
ot much difference between your scheme and mine.</div><div>Probably, becaus=
e I based mine on your notes in lojban.org wiki pages on mu'ei, conditional=
s and CAhA :-)</div><div>The wiki doesn't mention {pu'i}. That's why {ca'a}=
 is</div><div><a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/''ca'ai'',+''ka'ei''+an=
d+''nu'oi',+and+''nau'a''">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/''ca'ai'',+''ka'ei''+=
and+''nu'oi',+and+''nau'a''</a>&nbsp;<br></div><div>not defined correctly (=
is it {ka'e je ca'a} or {ka'e na je ca'a}?).</div><div>But your new scheme =
is pretty clear.</div><div>I wish we could add {da'i} to this scheme.</div>=
<div>Anyway, I'm sure that redefining CAhA as xorxes just suggested is a mu=
st.</div><div><br></div><div>I don't know how to explain my scheme better</=
div><div>but the shortest version of it would be</div><div>A-level. {ka'e}<=
/div><div>M-level. {nu'o,pu'i}</div><div>F-level. {ca'a}</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Other topics relating to conditionals are:</div><div>1. Relation bet=
ween {ni'i} and {ganai ... gi}. Needs to be clarified. What are your though=
ts, John?</div><div>2. {va'o} which as wiki mentions is more vague and ther=
efore powerful than {ganai ...gi}.<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;paddin=
g-left: 1ex;">
<br>mu'o mi'e xorxes
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

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