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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 02:12:33 -0600
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Direction of Rotation
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On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 1:40 AM, la .lindar. <lindarthebard@gmail.com>wrote:

> I had an idea. Things can only move circularly in one of two directions.
>>> Why not just use {carna fi li pa} and {carna fi li re}, or even {carna fi
>>> lo pritu} and {carna fi lo zunle}?
>>
>>
> From a completely unbiased standpoint, without any cultural knowledge,
> does that unambiguously indicate direction of rotation?
>

No, we'd need a frame of reference to establish which is which. Since carna
doesn't have that place, it remains a small problem. We can assume,
however, that by "right" we mean that the "top" of the rotating thing is
moving right while simultaneously the "bottom" is moving left, if the
object were looked at from a particular orientation- i.e. the frame of
reference, which I'll dub the "face". For example, from the orientation of
looking at a clock's "face", the 12 is the topmost number, and the 6 the
bottommost, and so the imaginary circular planes the hands rotate within
are moving "right".

Making the above assumption means we'd only have to establish what portion
of the object is the "face".


> Which way is "left"? Are we measuring from the bottom or the top?
>

I'd say to measure from the top. It's arbitrary which we choose, but we do
have to consistently choose the same one to avoid confusion, hence the
above assumptions.


> Which way is the "first" rotation? Is that culturally neutral?
>

I'd say clockwise. Right-handed people are the vast majority in every
culture, so definitely not neutral, but not, I'd say, for cultural reasons.

-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 1:40 AM, la .lindar. <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lindarthebard@gmail.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">lindarthebard@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margi=
n-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
I
 had an idea. Things can only move circularly in one of two directions.=20
Why not just use {carna fi li pa} and {carna fi li re}, or even {carna=20
fi lo pritu} and {carna fi lo zunle}?=A0</blockquote></div></div></blockquo=
te><div><br></div></div><div>From a completely unbiased standpoint, without=
 any cultural knowledge, does that unambiguously indicate direction of rota=
tion?</div>
</blockquote><div><br>No, we&#39;d need a frame of reference to establish w=
hich is which. Since carna doesn&#39;t have that place, it remains a small =
problem. We can assume, however, that by &quot;right&quot; we mean that the=
 &quot;top&quot; of the rotating thing is moving right while simultaneously=
 the &quot;bottom&quot; is moving left, if the object were looked at from a=
 particular orientation- i.e. the frame of reference, which I&#39;ll dub th=
e &quot;face&quot;. For example, from the orientation of looking at a clock=
&#39;s &quot;face&quot;, the 12 is the topmost number, and the 6 the bottom=
most, and so the imaginary circular planes the hands rotate within are movi=
ng &quot;right&quot;.<br>
<br>Making the above assumption means we&#39;d only have to establish what =
portion of the object is the &quot;face&quot;.<br>=A0</div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">
<div>Which way is &quot;left&quot;? Are we measuring from the bottom or the=
 top?</div></blockquote><div><br>I&#39;d say to measure from the top. It&#3=
9;s arbitrary which we choose, but we do have to consistently choose the sa=
me one to avoid confusion, hence the above assumptions.<br>
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>Which way is the &quot;first&q=
uot; rotation? Is that culturally neutral? <br></div></blockquote></div><br=
>I&#39;d say clockwise. Right-handed people are the vast majority in every =
culture, so definitely not neutral, but not, I&#39;d say, for cultural reas=
ons.<br clear=3D"all">
<br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo piln=
o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Lu=
ke, I am your father. :D )<br><br>

<p></p>

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