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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 06:48:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>, 
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Subject: Re: [lojban] baby words, sort of: catlu vs. zgana
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The scheme is still not complete. Let's put all sensory aspects into one 
table.
These are the predicate that we might get (I will give them temporary names 
in curly brackets).

{HEAR} - x1 hears object(e.g. musician)/event (e.g. concert) x2, listens to 
it and defines x2 as x3 (noisy, loud, sweet, lovely, romantic etc.)
{SEE} - x1 sees object/event x2, looks at x2 and defines it as x3 (green, 
that it looks ugly etc.)
{SMELL} - x1 smells object/event x2, observes x2 and defines it as x3 (e.g. 
flowery,pungent, musk)
{TASTE} - x1 tastes object/event x2, observes x2 and defines it as x3 (e.g. 
tasty, sweet,sour)
{TOUCH} - x1 touches x2, observes (tries) x2 and defines it as having 
texture x3 (e.g. rought)
As you can see we actually need valsi with three places. "observe" is a 
variation of each predicate that can be best expressed using 
additional {jundi}  or {zgana} as xorxes suggested.
This scheme is consistent. The only problem is that it doesn't correspond 
to the current mess of sensory gismu.

The only gismu that corresponds to this scheme is {te panci}.
{sumne} is a superfluous gismu.
{te tirna} is something that we can also place in every sensory gismu.
{vrusi} overlaps the senses of taste and smell.

This is something that definitely needs revision.
We have five senses and we must clearly express what we feel.
*Currently Lojban lacks such power (except in the case of {te panci}).*

On Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:37:26 AM UTC+4, Robin Powell wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 01:32:54PM -0700, djandus wrote: 
> > On Friday, November 18, 2011 3:48:51 PM UTC-6, xorxes wrote: 
> > > 
> > > On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Robin Lee Powell wrote: 
> > > > This is really interesting stuff!  Can you make sure it 
> > > > appears on some appropriate BPFK page? 
> > > > 
> > > > I completely agree with you about zgana, and I'm inclined to 
> > > > agree with you about ganse; make sure they get notes in the 
> > > > gismu setion please. 
> > >  
> > > I'm not in much of a wiki-editing mood lately, so I'll leave 
> > > that to somepony else. 
> > > 
> > Dude, did this really never get done? 
>
> I linked to the thread on the gismu issues page, a few hours ago. 
>
> -Robin 
>
> -- 
> http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. 
> .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e 
> lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e 
> lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni 
> li'u 
>

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The scheme is still not complete. Let's put all sensory aspects into one ta=
ble.<div>These are the predicate that we might get (I will give them tempor=
ary names in curly brackets).</div><div><br></div><div><div>{HEAR} - x1 hea=
rs object(e.g. musician)/event (e.g. concert) x2, listens to it and defines=
 x2 as x3 (noisy, loud, sweet, lovely, romantic etc.)</div><div>{SEE} - x1 =
sees object/event x2, looks at x2 and defines it as x3 (green, that it look=
s ugly etc.)</div></div><div>{SMELL} - x1 smells object/event x2, observes =
x2 and defines it as x3 (e.g. flowery,pungent, musk)</div><div>{TASTE} - x1=
 tastes object/event x2, observes x2 and defines it as x3 (e.g. tasty, swee=
t,sour)</div><div>{TOUCH} - x1 touches x2, observes (tries) x2 and defines =
it as having texture x3 (e.g. rought)<br></div><div>As you can see we actua=
lly need valsi with three places. "observe" is a variation of each predicat=
e that can be best expressed using additional&nbsp;{jundi}&nbsp; or&nbsp;{z=
gana} as xorxes suggested.<br></div><div>This scheme is consistent. The onl=
y problem is that it doesn't correspond to the current mess of sensory gism=
u.</div><div><br></div><div>The only gismu that corresponds to this scheme =
is {te panci}.</div><div>{sumne}&nbsp;is a superfluous gismu.</div><div>{te=
 tirna} is something that we can also place in every sensory gismu.</div><d=
iv>{vrusi} overlaps the senses of taste and smell.</div><div><br></div><div=
>This is something that definitely needs revision.</div><div>We have five s=
enses and we must clearly express what we feel.</div><div><b>Currently Lojb=
an lacks such power (except in the case of {te panci}).</b></div><div><br><=
/div><div>On Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:37:26 AM UTC+4, Robin Powell wrote:<b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;borde=
r-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 01:32:54=
PM -0700, djandus wrote:
<br>&gt; On Friday, November 18, 2011 3:48:51 PM UTC-6, xorxes wrote:
<br>&gt; &gt;
<br>&gt; &gt; On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; This is really interesting stuff! &nbsp;Can you make sur=
e it
<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; appears on some appropriate BPFK page?
<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;
<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; I completely agree with you about zgana, and I'm incline=
d to
<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; agree with you about ganse; make sure they get notes in =
the
<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; gismu setion please.
<br>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;<br>&gt; &gt; I'm not in much of a wiki-editing mood la=
tely, so I'll leave
<br>&gt; &gt; that to somepony else.
<br>&gt; &gt;
<br>&gt; Dude, did this really never get done?
<br>
<br>I linked to the thread on the gismu issues page, a few hours ago.
<br>
<br>-Robin
<br>
<br>--=20
<br><a href=3D"http://singinst.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://singinst.org/=
</a> : &nbsp;Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
<br>.i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e
<br>lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
<br>lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakn=
i li'u
<br></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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