Received: from mail-gg0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]:63343) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SzsKw-0000k3-Vo; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:45:32 -0700 Received: by ggcs5 with SMTP id s5sf1828510ggc.16 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:45:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=v9ONxNgXV3fQxJyjellYt2hsbLAp/G7TM9UyaEMz4Z0=; b=bjh9I2ieZV9Mgd+NCeKJEX0OSFoDn+tIeRDG3o/IIRL8K7XPWVWKE3vB6yiLI1oHAk NBy6lwp31s3QVjANCNTkiJp31AtLIKv8oOXM0MokXjy1B3SUgv8llEWQNkmiYfS9e1LR qRqKh7FCD4wXlqmEi4UzDCgnaOxABMve6uzh0= Received: by 10.236.109.233 with SMTP id s69mr809545yhg.11.1344617116303; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:45:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.236.113.178 with SMTP id a38ls7624175yhh.9.gmail; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.189.36 with SMTP id b24mr1967342yhn.9.1344617115752; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.189.36 with SMTP id b24mr1967341yhn.9.1344617115741; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f52.google.com (mail-yw0-f52.google.com [209.85.213.52]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q2si1214573yhi.5.2012.08.10.09.45.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.52 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.213.52; Received: by mail-yw0-f52.google.com with SMTP id p61so1796461yhp.11 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:45:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.15.129 with SMTP id x1mr31510igc.36.1344617115535; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.124.37 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:45:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201aced6-3e11-408d-b3ec-c31d042519c7@googlegroups.com> <50eeeab2-c661-4c30-8cda-2f9ddb8767de@googlegroups.com> <4bdee803-3d24-474b-bf12-ced2d730960a@googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 18:45:15 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Direction of Rotation From: Escape Landsome To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: escaaape@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.52 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=escaaape@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Just to be more precise, I don't really catch what you term a "reference frame". If a reference frame means the move of the Sun somewhere, etc., it still needs a cultural element, connecting it with some ways of measurement agreeing with what we know of our usual euclidean space. (That is : nature of right or left hand, and so on) If I refer to my right hand, this is culturally connected to my biological nature. If I refer to my usual clock, this has to do with the convention in the state where I live (in old times, there existed two types of clocks, and the "clockwise" of one region was the "counterclockwise" of another). Thus, I suggest (but that's maybe what you intended to suggest) that the two words be : W1 = x1 is clockwise in frame x2 relatively to cultural usage x3 W2 = x2 is counterclockwise in frame x2 relatively to cultural usage x3 . The other annoying thing is that the physic symmetry clockwise versus counterclockwise (that is some symmetry of (+1 or -1) determinant for a polar vector) is a Z/2Z symmetry, that is, it has only two different possible values. So we can get rid of it by creating two new words (I can't see whether you want them to be two unrelated words, to avoid cultural bias --- or not). Assume someday a physicist finds a 23-fold symmetry in nature, we'll have to add to lojban lexicon 23 new words (and perhaps, 23 unrelated ones). This is not what I call a sane solution -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.