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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 00:09:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban] {lo broda cu brode} vs. {lo brode cu broda} vs. {broda
 je brode} vs. {brode no'oi broda} vs. Lesniewski vs. NLP
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Well, so many answers. I have to adhere to jbocertu's, i.e. xorxes'=20
position then.

On Saturday, August 11, 2012 6:51:14 PM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:
>
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 6:42 AM, Gleki Arxokuna=20
> <gleki.is...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:=20
> > Can anyone tell me the difference between=20
> >=20
> > {lo broda cu brode} vs. {lo brode cu broda} vs. {broda je brode}=20
>
> I would say it's a matter of information structure, "lo" marking the=20
> topic and "cu" the comment.=20
> (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic%E2%80%93comment )=20
> In "lo nixli cu limna" you are talking about girls and saying that=20
> they are swimmers, in "lo limna cu nixli" you are talking about=20
> swimmers and saying that they are girls.

That makes sense. Now I can compare it with {zo'u}=20

> "nixli je limna" is more=20
> complex: you are talking about something implicit in the context, and=20
> making the compound claim that they are girl swimmers.=20
>
> > What is more interesting that latros entered a new cmavo {no'oi} which=
=20
> is=20
> > the same as {noi} but applied to selbri.=20
> > And {lo=3Dzo'e noi}.=20
> > If so what's the difference between=20
> > {lo broda cu brode} vs. {lo brode cu broda} vs. {broda je brode} vs.=20
> {brode=20
> > no'oi broda}?=20
>
> "noi" introduces an separate clause, which is not part of the main=20
> claim. It will usually be incidental information, or something the=20
> speaker is taking for granted rather than advancing as a claim. The=20
> noi-clause has its own independent illocutionary force too, so you=20
> could make it a question or a command while the main clause is a claim=20
> or vice versa.=20
>
> > Next.=20
> > In Lesniewski's logic "a =E5 b" means "Earth is a planet", "Alice is a=
=20
> human"=20
> > but not vice versa.=20
> > In Natural Language Processing there is a predicate "instance-of" so=20
> that=20
> > "New York is a city" turns into "New York is an-instance-of a city".=20
> >=20
> > How should I understand the same stuff in Lojban?=20
>
> It sounds like "me": "ko'a me ko'e"=20
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes=20
>

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Well, so many answers. I have to adhere to jbocertu's, i.e. xorxes' positio=
n then.<br><br>On Saturday, August 11, 2012 6:51:14 PM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bor=
der-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 6:42 A=
M, Gleki Arxokuna
<br>&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"=
UDx5gkSET28J">gleki.is...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt; Can anyone tell me the difference between
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; {lo broda cu brode} vs. {lo brode cu broda} vs. {broda je brode}
<br>
<br>I would say it's a matter of information structure, "lo" marking the
<br>topic and "cu" the comment.
<br>(See: <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic%E2%80%93comment" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Topic%E2%80%93comment</a>=
 )
<br>In "lo nixli cu limna" you are talking about girls and saying that
<br>they are swimmers, in "lo limna cu nixli" you are talking about
<br>swimmers and saying that they are girls.</blockquote><div>That makes se=
nse. Now I can compare it with {zo'u}&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left: 1ex;"> "nixli je limna" is more
<br>complex: you are talking about something implicit in the context, and
<br>making the compound claim that they are girl swimmers.
<br>
<br>&gt; What is more interesting that latros entered a new cmavo {no'oi} w=
hich is
<br>&gt; the same as {noi} but applied to selbri.
<br>&gt; And {lo=3Dzo'e noi}.
<br>&gt; If so what's the difference between
<br>&gt; {lo broda cu brode} vs. {lo brode cu broda} vs. {broda je brode} v=
s. {brode
<br>&gt; no'oi broda}?
<br>
<br>"noi" introduces an separate clause, which is not part of the main
<br>claim. It will usually be incidental information, or something the
<br>speaker is taking for granted rather than advancing as a claim. The
<br>noi-clause has its own independent illocutionary force too, so you
<br>could make it a question or a command while the main clause is a claim
<br>or vice versa.
<br>
<br>&gt; Next.
<br>&gt; In Lesniewski's logic "a =E5 b" means "Earth is a planet", "Alice =
is a human"
<br>&gt; but not vice versa.
<br>&gt; In Natural Language Processing there is a predicate "instance-of" =
so that
<br>&gt; "New York is a city" turns into "New York is an-instance-of a city=
".
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; How should I understand the same stuff in Lojban?
<br>
<br>It sounds like "me": "ko'a me ko'e"
<br>
<br>mu'o mi'e xorxes
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

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