Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:53898) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T0SKi-0005lJ-Vx; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 00:11:38 -0700 Received: by yhoo21 with SMTP id o21sf3492193yho.16 for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 00:11:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=K4qG+PZt1lM7jYq0P/8S1ZNGek5EoLDqoMc8br6Q5tU=; b=Q3dvFPkzqeBd6L0gybOWJoy1JZsm6LZciCuiUmnDrUHPGoXD2cPblQ5KXUMSpD+luu B/HI2+OZhr3dmK9MSdz0BSCjmg2heLb0t6IKzbtLKZKP7EaqXk28u5u58Smkq1SSRi1x XYuLXIo3R68/od0swRwvut0HFegxy+tciM9cE= Received: by 10.68.189.228 with SMTP id gl4mr1498639pbc.4.1344755486168; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 00:11:26 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.211.228 with SMTP id nf4ls15891066pbc.4.gmail; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 00:11:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.197.70 with SMTP id is6mr1494630pbc.14.1344755485739; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 00:11:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 00:11:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <9afe3883-606f-436f-a383-c54dbb5bc688@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] {lo broda cu brode} vs. {lo brode cu broda} vs. {broda je brode} vs. {brode no'oi broda} vs. Lesniewski vs. NLP MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_766_4047468.1344755485107" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_766_4047468.1344755485107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Saturday, August 11, 2012 5:53:58 PM UTC+4, tsani wrote: > > On 11 August 2012 05:42, Gleki Arxokuna > > wrote: > >> Can anyone tell me the difference between=20 >> >> {lo broda cu brode} vs. {lo brode cu broda} vs. {broda je brode} >> What is more interesting that latros entered a new cmavo {no'oi} which i= s=20 >> the same as {noi} but applied to selbri. >> And {lo=3Dzo'e noi}. >> If so what's the difference between >> {lo broda cu brode} vs. {lo brode cu broda} vs. {broda je brode} vs.=20 >> {brode no'oi broda}? >> >> > It has to do with quantification, emphasis, and context. {lo broda} refer= s=20 > to a broda that is presumably already in context, and for which it is=20 > already somewhat known to be a broda, given the nature of the underlying= =20 > mechanism {zo'e noi broda}. However, {lo broda cu brode} and {broda je=20 > brode} are drastically different. The former says that there are some bro= da=20 > (that are known to be broda and that in context) that are also brode,=20 > whereas {broda je brode} is explicitly assigning the properties broda and= =20 > brode to something in context. In both cases, there is something in=20 > context, but in the {je} example, it is not presumed that the thing in=20 > context being a broda is known by the listener, not to mention that the= =20 > {lo} form creates a sort of symbol that loosely always refers to the same= =20 > thing(s). > > Anyway, the implicit je thing is something that I personally dislike abou= t=20 > loksan, if that's what this is about. > loksan's feature is something that I decided myself without asking anyone. If optional topic/comment markers are added to loksan default {je}=20 construction can be modified to reflect xorxes' view on {lo .... ku}. No advantages over Loccan2=3DLojban, though. > mu'o > =20 > >> Next. >> In Lesniewski's logic "a =E5 b" means "Earth is a planet", "Alice is a= =20 >> human" but not vice versa. >> In Natural Language Processing there is a predicate "instance-of" so tha= t=20 >> "New York is a city" turns into "New York is an-instance-of a city". >> >> How should I understand the same stuff in Lojban? >> >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s=20 >> "lojban" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit=20 >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/TCytGgWgTjUJ. >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 >> lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . >> For more options, visit this group at=20 >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo= jban/-/wuNoz7mWsuMJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. ------=_Part_766_4047468.1344755485107 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Saturday, August 11, 2012 5:53:58 PM UTC+4, tsani wrote:On 11 August 2012 05:42, Gleki Arxokun= a <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
Can anyone tell me the difference between 

{lo broda cu brode} = vs. {lo brode cu broda} vs. {broda je brode}
What is more interesting t= hat latros entered a new cmavo {no'oi} which is the same as {noi} but appli= ed to selbri.
And {lo=3Dzo'e noi}.
If so what's the difference between=
{lo broda cu brode} vs. {lo brode cu broda} vs. {broda je brode}=  vs. {brode no'oi broda}?


It has to do with quantification, emphasis, and context= . {lo broda} refers to a broda that is presumably already in context, and f= or which it is already somewhat known to be a broda, given the nature of th= e underlying mechanism {zo'e noi broda}. However, {lo broda cu brode} and {= broda je brode} are drastically different. The former says that there are s= ome broda (that are known to be broda and that in context) that are also br= ode, whereas {broda je brode} is explicitly assigning the properties broda = and brode to something in context. In both cases, there is something in con= text, but in the {je} example, it is not presumed that the thing in context= being a broda is known by the listener, not to mention that the {lo} form = creates a sort of symbol that loosely always refers to the same thing(s).

Anyway, the implicit je thing is something that I perso= nally dislike about loksan, if that's what this is about.
loksan's feature is something that I decided myself without ask= ing anyone.
If optional topic/comment markers are added to loksan= default {je} construction can be modified to reflect xorxes' view on {lo .= ... ku}.
No advantages over Loccan2=3DLojban, though.
<= br>

mu'o
 
Next.
In Lesniewski's logic "a =E5 b" m= eans "Earth is a planet", "Alice is a human" but not vice versa.
= In Natural Language Processing there is a predicate "instance-of" so that "= New York is a city" turns into "New York is an-instance-of a city".

How should I understand the same stuff in Lojban?
=

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com= /d/msg/lojban/-/TCytGgWgTjUJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@googl= egroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/= lojban?hl=3Den.

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/wu= Noz7mWsuMJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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