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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 02:14:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: iesk <pa.fae@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] {.au}/{djica}={.ai}/{?}. No gismu for intention
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Le dimanche 12 ao=FBt 2012 06:26:19 UTC+2, Mike a =E9crit :
>If I am free and officially sanctioned to say "ui" disingenuously i.e.=20
without really being happy, or I can say "ai" without even the slightest=20
conscious real intention (at the time, perhaps speaking a complete lie) of=
=20
follow-through, then I fear that "ui" and "ai" >have no real meaning.  Is=
=20
this what is wanted?  Consider what politicians would do with these=20
conventions.  Consider what they already do speaking English.
>
>I think the real question I have here regards _meaning_.   You make what I=
=20
feel is an arbitrary semantic distinction between an assertion and an=20
attitudinal "mode", but I feel without assertion there is no meaning.   If=
=20
attitudinals don't assert at least a >vague albeit real feeling felt by the=
=20
speaker, what do attitudinals really do? =20

ba'e pe'i di'e

You are free and officially sanctioned to fake a smile. Politicians do fake=
=20
smiles. In spite of all that, a smile usually means something to you (not=
=20
in a propositional way). However that works, that's how UIs should work.

Whenever human beings smile, we are *usually* entitled to say that they are=
=20
happy (I=92m simplifying, obviously). You are wise to assume that *some*=20
instances of smiling are fake, but you just don't assume that *all* smiles=
=20
are fake. If you did, you'd probably end up being considered mentally ill=
=20
or something.

Whenever a Lojban speaker says {.ui}, same thing. It is part of the Lojban=
=20
Sprachspiel.^^

Whenever I feel like giving in to the temptation of thinking about UIs in=
=20
terms of truth and falsehood, I remind myself that UIs are essentially like=
=20
body language, viz. (to the ideal Lojban speaker) they are a natural=20
extension and, if you will, enrichment of it. Verbalised non-verbal=20
communication.

iesk

--=20
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Le dimanche 12 ao=FBt 2012 06:26:19 UTC+2, Mike a =E9crit&nbsp;:<br>&gt;If =
I am free and officially sanctioned to say "ui" disingenuously i.e. without=
 really being happy, or I can say "ai" without even the slightest conscious=
 real intention (at the time, perhaps speaking a complete lie) of follow-th=
rough, then I fear that "ui" and "ai" &gt;have no real meaning.&nbsp; Is th=
is what is wanted?&nbsp; Consider what politicians would do with these conv=
entions.&nbsp; Consider what they already do speaking English.<br>&gt;<br>&=
gt;I think the real question I have here regards _meaning_.&nbsp;&nbsp; You=
 make what I feel is an arbitrary semantic distinction between an assertion=
 and an attitudinal "mode", but I feel without assertion there is no meanin=
g.&nbsp;&nbsp; If attitudinals don't assert at least a &gt;vague albeit rea=
l feeling felt by the speaker, what do attitudinals really do?&nbsp; <br><b=
r>ba'e pe'i di'e<br><br>You are free and officially sanctioned to fake a sm=
ile. Politicians do fake smiles. In spite of all that, a smile usually mean=
s something to you (not in a propositional way). However that works, that's=
 how UIs should work.<br><br>Whenever human beings smile, we are *usually* =
entitled to say that they are happy (I=92m simplifying, obviously). You are=
 wise to assume that *some* instances of smiling are fake, but you just don=
't assume that *all* smiles are fake. If you did, you'd probably end up bei=
ng considered mentally ill or something.<br><br>Whenever a Lojban speaker s=
ays {.ui}, same thing. It is part of the Lojban Sprachspiel.^^<br><div><br>=
Whenever I feel like giving in to the temptation of thinking about UIs in t=
erms of truth and falsehood, I remind myself that UIs are essentially like =
body language, viz. (to the ideal Lojban speaker) they are a natural extens=
ion and, if you will, enrichment of it. Verbalised non-verbal communication=
.<br><br>iesk<br></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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om/d/msg/lojban/-/oXwIt6Dn-IMJ">https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/oX=
wIt6Dn-IMJ</a>.<br />=20
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



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