Received: from mail-gg0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]:39460) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T0bGS-0001Bh-Fz; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:43:54 -0700 Received: by ggcs5 with SMTP id s5sf3833485ggc.16 for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:43:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=qU4WxTHNx8ofJ3HGlc+4ZIUSbYvvsbWMl181JFD0/rA=; b=GPM/K8eo9HM1NjYRpS0qbwMPz5NPK0sizo8oiPefRh5LXw2qgFQdj8oBH6mH0duPHk 6N8ujHr7aT16EVJciWWzqE0nWCuPYovfbslBUovgic45pw7Fo5t4aqxTBLSGf0ND3goO GR7/dfxkuVNDGRz5zns6smoCBZmOGjneg7p3c= Received: by 10.236.74.38 with SMTP id w26mr1416975yhd.18.1344789817787; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:43:37 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.236.124.176 with SMTP id x36ls9710872yhh.1.gmail; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.79.225 with SMTP id i61mr702283yhe.8.1344789817226; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.79.225 with SMTP id i61mr702282yhe.8.1344789817215; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f48.google.com (mail-yw0-f48.google.com [209.85.213.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u67si1362794yhi.7.2012.08.12.09.43.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of celestialcognition@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.213.48; Received: by mail-yw0-f48.google.com with SMTP id q46so2641647yhf.7 for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.169.4 with SMTP id aa4mr3122901igc.53.1344789816888; Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:43:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.103] (76-76-236-67.lisco.net. [76.76.236.67]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bp8sm9337956igb.12.2012.08.12.09.43.36 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:43:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5027DD37.8040704@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 11:43:35 -0500 From: vitci'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120714 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Direction of Rotation References: <4bce1b85-1742-4819-bebf-3f3ffe9162e2@googlegroups.com>

<1344787920.72396.YahooMailNeo@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1344787920.72396.YahooMailNeo@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Sender: celestialcognition@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of celestialcognition@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=celestialcognition@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / We do have zunle/pritu. But I don't think you do need to specify, as long as the selbri relating a directed axle to a rotation is consistent-though-arbitrary. On 08/12/2012 11:12 AM, John E Clifford wrote: > But you still need to specify which thumb. Is there no escape from this? > > > > ________________________________ > From: .arpis. > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 10:34 AM > Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Direction of Rotation > > Right hand rules are a series of mnemonics (usually taught in physics) > for remembering the arbitrary but consistent directions and sign > choices. An example: If the current is flowing in the direction of > your thumb, the electric field is in the direction of your fingers (on > the right hand). > Left hand rules can be used, but negate one sign (in the math > representation) relative to the right hand rules. > > A useful right hand rule for lojban might be "the direction your > fingers curl when you point your right thumb at your face" > > On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 3:04 AM, Gleki Arxokuna > wrote: >> So Robin entered right-hand rule to Gismu issues page. >> >> Can you provide some examples of it's usage with all places filled in? Is it >> culturally-neutral (both left and right direction can be equally used)? >> >> btw, lindar started this topic because he NEEDED a way of expressing the >> concept of "clockwise". >> >> doi loi jbobadna, where are the examples after all? >> >> On Sunday, August 12, 2012 12:34:00 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 10:11 AM, djandus wrote: >>>> >>>> I don't have time to go over every post in this thread, especially seeing >>>> as it is rather full of people getting offended. >>>> >>>> Has anyone brought up the right-hand rule? (for rotations) >>>> >>>> That is, for the wheels on a car, I could say: >>>> {lo karce xislu cu carna zo'e lo zunle be lo karce} >>>> because if you were to stick your right thumb to the car's left, your >>>> fingers would curl around in the direction of rotation. This is consistent >>>> with the overall standard of the right-hand rule, which comes up on this >>>> topic via the cross product definition of angular motion. That is, if I were >>>> to be asked the "direction" of the angular motion, momentum, or similar, it >>>> would be to the car's left. This is arbitrary, but completely standardized >>>> in physics. >>> >>> >>> I believe Pierre did, yes. >>> >>>> >>>> Similarly, I would say that a top would be {carna zo'e lo gapru} if it >>>> were spinning counter-clockwise when viewed from above. If I were to >>>> instruct one to remove a screw, I could say {ko cargau lo klupe ku zo'e lo >>>> bartu}, because the direction a screw moves and the direction it needs to >>>> rotate correspond by the same standard right-hand rule. If I were to use the >>>> carna2 spot, the axis would probably be defined with a direction as >>>> "positive," after which I could then use {li ni'u}/{li ma'u} in carna3. >>>> (This would be the establisment of a coordinate system.) If the axis was >>>> given descriptively without a direction, then my other examples illustrate >>>> how I would deal with that. >>>> >>>> Is there anything terribly wrong with these examples? >>>> mu'o mi'e djos >>> >>> >>> I don't see anything. >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/zs8HlDKVgFwJ. >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.