On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Gleki Arxokuna= <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, August 12, 2012 8:17:20 PM UTC+4, .arp= is. wrote:

> But you still need t= o specify which thumb.

The right one; that's why it's a right hand rule.

> Is there no escape from this?

No, there isn't; as aionus pointed out, you need a reference frame.

Unfortunately, it's not culturally neutral.=

Yes it is. It's lack of neutrality is not c= ultural.
=A0

If we have {zunle/pritu} we need two words for rotation too: left-hand= and right-hand rule.

No we don't. We choose= one. The other is merely to'e.
=A0

> ___________________= _____________
> From: .arpis. <rpglover...@gmail.com>
> To: loj...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 10:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Direction of Rotation
>
> Right hand rules are a series of mnemonics (usually taught in phys= ics)
> for remembering the arbitrary but consistent directions and sign
> choices. An example: If the current is flowing in the direction of
> your thumb, the electric field is in the direction of your fingers= (on
> the right hand).
> Left hand rules can be used, but negate one sign (in the math
> representation) relative to the right hand rules.
>
> A useful right hand rule for lojban might be "the direction y= our
> fingers curl when you point your right thumb at your face"
>
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 3:04 AM, Gleki Arxokuna
> <gleki.is...@gmail.com> = wrote:
>> So Robin entered right-hand rule to Gismu issues page.
>>
>> Can you provide some examples of it's usage with all place= s filled in? Is
>> it
>> culturally-neutral (both left and right direction can be equal= ly used)?
>>
>> btw, lindar started this topic because he NEEDED a way of expr= essing the
>> concept of "clockwise".
>>
>> doi loi jbobadna, where are the examples after all?
>>
>> On Sunday, August 12, 2012 12:34:00 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 10:11 AM, djandus <jan...@gm= ail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't have time to go over every post in this th= read, especially
>>>> seeing
>>>> as it is rather full of people getting offended.
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone brought up the right-hand rule? (for rotati= ons)
>>>>
>>>> That is, for the wheels on a car, I could say:
>>>> {lo karce xislu cu carna zo'e lo zunle be lo karce= }
>>>> because if you were to stick your right thumb to the c= ar's left, your
>>>> fingers would curl around in the direction of rotation= . This is
>>>> consistent
>>>> with the overall standard of the right-hand rule, whic= h comes up on this
>>>> topic via the cross product definition of angular moti= on. That is, if I
>>>> were
>>>> to be asked the "direction" of the angular m= otion, momentum, or similar,
>>>> it
>>>> would be to the car's left. This is arbitrary, but= completely
>>>> standardized
>>>> in physics.
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe Pierre did, yes.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Similarly, I would say that a top would be {carna zo&#= 39;e lo gapru} if it
>>>> were spinning counter-clockwise when viewed from above= . If I were to
>>>> instruct one to remove a screw, I could say {ko cargau= lo klupe ku zo'e
>>>> lo
>>>> bartu}, because the direction a screw moves and the di= rection it needs
>>>> to
>>>> rotate correspond by the same standard right-hand rule= . If I were to use
>>>> the
>>>> carna2 spot, the axis would probably be defined with a= direction as
>>>> "positive," after which I could then use {li= ni'u}/{li ma'u} in carna3.
>>>> (This would be the establisment of a coordinate system= .) If the axis was
>>>> given descriptively without a direction, then my other= examples
>>>> illustrate
>>>> how I would deal with that.
>>>>
>>>> Is there anything terribly wrong with these examples?
>>>> mu'o mi'e djos
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't see anything.
>>>
>>> --
>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>>>
>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi= patfu do zo'o
>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>>>
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>
>
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--=20
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

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