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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 22:35:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Direction of Rotation
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On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:29:33 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:11 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com<javascript:>
> > wrote:
>
>> Attention please!
>> I was trying to create a word for "clockwise"/"counterclockwise".
>> solar metaphor is good because this is what ancient people used.
>> It's global and universal for the whole planet.
>>
>
> How is this metaphor adequate? The sun always rises in the east, but how 
> do you distinguish north from south? 
>
In northern hemisphere the Sun goes east-south-west.
In southern hemisphere the Sun goes west-north-east. 
We have gismu for north and south, by the way.

>
> stevo
>
>  
>
>>
>> As for "turn to the left/right" I didn't do any work.
>>
>> As yesterday Robin said that "rotate in general" without specifying 
>> clockwise or counterclockwise was also a concept then we needed.
>>
>> So for now I'm not proposing any new gismu.
>> {bolto,nanju,berju} are obsolete.
>>
>> Let's get back to discussing places once again.
>>
>> May be we can revise my suggestion of {carna fi lo pritu/zunle} with 
>> modified x2 once again?
>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 2:19:24 AM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 4:16 PM, djandus <jan...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>> > He seems to be advocating the usage of two words, one for 
>>> > "turning" and one for "rotating", which I advocate. 
>>>
>>> Could someone explain why the same word can't be used for both? The 
>>> main difference seems to be that "turn" usually doesn't require a full 
>>> revolution, while "rotate" usually requires many revolutions. but 
>>> can't that be distinguished by some other means? We probably need a 
>>> word for "revolution" ("carlai"?) then we can specify the fraction or 
>>> number of revolutions involved with a spatial tense. Also "turn" is 
>>> often volitional, while "rotate" isn't. Is that part of the proposed 
>>> difference? 
>>>
>>> "zulcarna" and "pritycarna" have been used before for laevorotation 
>>> and dextrorotation. Why are they inadequate? 
>>>
>>> I found a couple of discussions about it from prehistoric times (1995 
>>> and 2000): 
>>>
>>> http://balance.wiw.org/~**jkominek/lojban/9509/msg00116.**html<http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9509/msg00116.html> 
>>>
>>> http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.**com/group/lojban/message/4728<http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/4728> 
>>>
>>> mu'o mi'e xorxes 
>>>
>>  -- 
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>>
>
>

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<br><br>On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:29:33 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote:<blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left:=
 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
ue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:11 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"oBeZXDJgEG0J">g=
leki.is...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">

Attention please!<div>I was trying to create a word for "clockwise"/"counte=
rclockwise"<wbr>.</div><div>solar metaphor is good because this is what anc=
ient people used.</div><div>It's global and universal for the whole planet.=
</div>

</blockquote><div><br></div><div>How is this metaphor adequate? The sun alw=
ays rises in the east, but how do you distinguish north from south?&nbsp;</=
div></div></blockquote><div>In northern hemisphere the Sun goes east-south-=
west.</div><div>In southern hemisphere the Sun goes west-north-east.&nbsp;<=
/div><div>We have gismu for north and south, by the way.</div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px=
 #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><=
div>stevo</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x">

<div><br></div><div>As for "turn to the left/right" I didn't do any work.</=
div><div><br></div><div>As yesterday Robin said that "rotate in general" wi=
thout specifying clockwise or counterclockwise was also a concept then we n=
eeded.</div>

<div><br></div><div>So for now I'm not proposing any new gismu.</div><div>{=
bolto,nanju,berju} are obsolete.</div><div><br></div><div>Let's get back to=
 discussing places once again.</div><div><br></div><div>May be we can revis=
e my suggestion of {carna fi lo pritu/zunle} with modified x2 once again?<b=
r>

On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 2:19:24 AM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:<blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 4:16 PM, djandus &lt;<a>jan=
...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt; He seems to be advocating the usage of two words, one for
<br>&gt; "turning" and one for "rotating", which I advocate.
<br>
<br>Could someone explain why the same word can't be used for both? The
<br>main difference seems to be that "turn" usually doesn't require a full
<br>revolution, while "rotate" usually requires many revolutions. but
<br>can't that be distinguished by some other means? We probably need a
<br>word for "revolution" ("carlai"?) then we can specify the fraction or
<br>number of revolutions involved with a spatial tense. Also "turn" is
<br>often volitional, while "rotate" isn't. Is that part of the proposed
<br>difference?
<br>
<br>"zulcarna" and "pritycarna" have been used before for laevorotation
<br>and dextrorotation. Why are they inadequate?
<br>
<br>I found a couple of discussions about it from prehistoric times (1995 a=
nd 2000):
<br>
<br><a href=3D"http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9509/msg00116.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://balance.wiw.org/~<u></u>jkomin<wbr>ek/lojban/9509/=
msg00116.<u></u>html</a>
<br>
<br><a href=3D"http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/4728" =
target=3D"_blank">http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.<u></u>c<wbr>om/group/lojban=
/message/4728</a>
<br>
<br>mu'o mi'e xorxes
<br></blockquote></div><div>

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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