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From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Direction of Rotation
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On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:38:37 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:35 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com<javascript:>
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:29:33 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:11 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Attention please!
>>>> I was trying to create a word for "clockwise"/"counterclockwise"**.
>>>> solar metaphor is good because this is what ancient people used.
>>>> It's global and universal for the whole planet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How is this metaphor adequate? The sun always rises in the east, but how 
>>> do you distinguish north from south? 
>>>
>> In northern hemisphere the Sun goes east-south-west.
>> In southern hemisphere the Sun goes west-north-east. 
>> We have gismu for north and south, by the way.
>>
>
> In both hemispheres the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Only 
> the north/south is different. 
>
.u'u .ie 

> You totally ignored the question. How do you distinguish north from south? 
> I know which is which by convention, but that doesn't help to distinguish 
> them in a mirror. 
>
I based my gismu on existing gismu for north and south that POSTULATE what 
is north and what is south.

Anyway, if we need a gismu for rotation in general my proposals are no 
longer acceptable.

>
> stevo  
>
>>
>>> stevo
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>  
>>>> As for "turn to the left/right" I didn't do any work.
>>>>
>>>> As yesterday Robin said that "rotate in general" without specifying 
>>>> clockwise or counterclockwise was also a concept then we needed.
>>>>
>>>> So for now I'm not proposing any new gismu.
>>>> {bolto,nanju,berju} are obsolete.
>>>>
>>>> Let's get back to discussing places once again.
>>>>
>>>> May be we can revise my suggestion of {carna fi lo pritu/zunle} with 
>>>> modified x2 once again?
>>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 2:19:24 AM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 4:16 PM, djandus <jan...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>> > He seems to be advocating the usage of two words, one for 
>>>>> > "turning" and one for "rotating", which I advocate. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Could someone explain why the same word can't be used for both? The 
>>>>> main difference seems to be that "turn" usually doesn't require a full 
>>>>> revolution, while "rotate" usually requires many revolutions. but 
>>>>> can't that be distinguished by some other means? We probably need a 
>>>>> word for "revolution" ("carlai"?) then we can specify the fraction or 
>>>>> number of revolutions involved with a spatial tense. Also "turn" is 
>>>>> often volitional, while "rotate" isn't. Is that part of the proposed 
>>>>> difference? 
>>>>>
>>>>> "zulcarna" and "pritycarna" have been used before for laevorotation 
>>>>> and dextrorotation. Why are they inadequate? 
>>>>>
>>>>> I found a couple of discussions about it from prehistoric times (1995 
>>>>> and 2000): 
>>>>>
>>>>> http://balance.wiw.org/~**jkomin**ek/lojban/9509/msg00116.**html<http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9509/msg00116.html> 
>>>>>
>>>>> http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.**c**om/group/lojban/message/4728<http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/4728> 
>>>>>
>>>>> mu'o mi'e xorxes 
>>>>>
>>>>  -- 
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>> Groups "lojban" group.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/**
>>>> msg/lojban/-/lBhgTBX7mjwJ<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/lBhgTBX7mjwJ>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@**
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>>>>
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>>>> group/lojban?hl=en <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en>.
>>>>
>>>
>>>  -- 
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>>
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>>
>
>

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------=_Part_536_22222256.1344923129133
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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<br><br>On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:38:37 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote:<blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left:=
 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
ue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:35 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"YmZ9Oi6mViAJ">g=
leki.is...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">

<br><br>On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:29:33 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote:<div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:11 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a>gl=
eki.is...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>


Attention please!<div>I was trying to create a word for "clockwise"/"counte=
rclockwise"<u></u><wbr>.</div><div>solar metaphor is good because this is w=
hat ancient people used.</div><div>It's global and universal for the whole =
planet.</div>



</blockquote><div><br></div><div>How is this metaphor adequate? The sun alw=
ays rises in the east, but how do you distinguish north from south?&nbsp;</=
div></div></blockquote></div><div>In northern hemisphere the Sun goes east-=
south-west.</div>

<div>In southern hemisphere the Sun goes west-north-east.&nbsp;</div><div>W=
e have gismu for north and south, by the way.</div></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div>In both hemispheres the sun rises in the east and sets in the west=
. Only the north/south is different.&nbsp;</div></div></blockquote><div>.u'=
u .ie&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margi=
n-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote">

<div>You totally ignored the question. How do you distinguish north from so=
uth? I know which is which by convention, but that doesn't help to distingu=
ish them in a mirror.&nbsp;</div></div></blockquote><div>I based my gismu o=
n existing gismu for north and south that POSTULATE what is north and what =
is south.</div><div><br></div><div>Anyway, if we need a gismu for rotation =
in general my proposals are no longer acceptable.</div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>ste=
vo &nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br=
></div><div>stevo</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex">

<div><div>

<div><br></div><div>As for "turn to the left/right" I didn't do any work.</=
div><div><br></div><div>As yesterday Robin said that "rotate in general" wi=
thout specifying clockwise or counterclockwise was also a concept then we n=
eeded.</div>



<div><br></div><div>So for now I'm not proposing any new gismu.</div><div>{=
bolto,nanju,berju} are obsolete.</div><div><br></div><div>Let's get back to=
 discussing places once again.</div><div><br></div><div>May be we can revis=
e my suggestion of {carna fi lo pritu/zunle} with modified x2 once again?<b=
r>



On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 2:19:24 AM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:<blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 4:16 PM, djandus &lt;<a>jan=
...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt; He seems to be advocating the usage of two words, one for
<br>&gt; "turning" and one for "rotating", which I advocate.
<br>
<br>Could someone explain why the same word can't be used for both? The
<br>main difference seems to be that "turn" usually doesn't require a full
<br>revolution, while "rotate" usually requires many revolutions. but
<br>can't that be distinguished by some other means? We probably need a
<br>word for "revolution" ("carlai"?) then we can specify the fraction or
<br>number of revolutions involved with a spatial tense. Also "turn" is
<br>often volitional, while "rotate" isn't. Is that part of the proposed
<br>difference?
<br>
<br>"zulcarna" and "pritycarna" have been used before for laevorotation
<br>and dextrorotation. Why are they inadequate?
<br>
<br>I found a couple of discussions about it from prehistoric times (1995 a=
nd 2000):
<br>
<br><a href=3D"http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9509/msg00116.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://balance.wiw.org/~<u></u>jkomin<u></u><wbr>ek/lojba=
n/9509/msg00116.<u></u>html</a>
<br>
<br><a href=3D"http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/4728" =
target=3D"_blank">http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.<u></u>c<u></u><wbr>om/group=
/lojban/message/4728</a>
<br>
<br>mu'o mi'e xorxes
<br></blockquote></div><div>

<p></p>

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</div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>
</blockquote><div>

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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