Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f61.google.com ([209.85.215.61]:63631) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T1Spt-0006yE-E4; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:55:59 -0700 Received: by lage12 with SMTP id e12sf309533lag.16 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:55:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=NeiA7oaKrTOx0KGfnJe4P/Op6Py/NQ0uufmvyIzyfrA=; b=fVs7HGv8gJZyWJTapw8FpOSNxOtlFaMPavS/KMdE5mwMoGTYiVHCuOjIblN8lCy7G5 jBnUQML51hpbMUC+wgzvgdwGMp5/BaqywkcBHNruW0cmxdd86CkUe9Cv7POi3cfWvhXq QFJtWmFMtHYaqjFBxYsNJhsK59KacmVnOmAq4= Received: by 10.180.101.197 with SMTP id fi5mr1276490wib.3.1344995743244; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:55:43 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.83.226 with SMTP id t2ls5887551wiy.3.canary; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.24.202 with SMTP id w10mr2676174wif.0.1344995742626; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.24.202 with SMTP id w10mr2676173wif.0.1344995742616; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-f52.google.com (mail-wg0-f52.google.com [74.125.82.52]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fb20si2928990wid.3.2012.08.14.18.55.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.52 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.52; Received: by wgbfg15 with SMTP id fg15so791931wgb.33 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.75.209 with SMTP id e17mr38009098wiw.0.1344995742469; Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.77] (87-194-76-177.bethere.co.uk. [87.194.76.177]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o2sm191829wiz.11.2012.08.14.18.55.39 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <502B0199.7090609@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 02:55:37 +0100 From: And Rosta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.28) Gecko/20120306 Thunderbird/3.1.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] &Lang References: <90a7e54c-42fe-4ee0-9693-8155db9a7646@googlegroups.com> <4FFDC7C8.2010707@gmail.com> <237c4ac5-64f3-40fa-81d3-8a97c76dcc5d@googlegroups.com> <1342109844.79789.YahooMailNeo@web184407.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4FFF180C.8060000@gmail.com> <4FFF534B.9010509@gmail.com> <5000314E.10906@gmail.com> <502A734B.1060906@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: and.rosta@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.52 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=and.rosta@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / .arpis., On 14/08/2012 17:30: > > Either I've misunderstood your response, or you've misunderstood the > > challenge. The challenge is that the same bound variable need never > > be repeated. Sure for any given single sentence containing n > > different variables you can define an equivalent single predicate > > with n arguments, but you can't do this for each of the infinitely > > many sentences in a language. > > But you _can_! Ah, so I did misunderstand your response. > That's how you'd build up sentences if the language's mechanism for > composing concepts involves uniting them into larger predicates. I wish I'd been able to understand your worked example, then, because that'= s the direction where I think the solution lies: iteratively uniting two pr= edicates into one, with a method for indicating which argument-places merge= into a single argument-place, ideally without having lexicosyntactically *= explicit* variables filling argument-places. E.g. F(a,b) and G(c,d) merge into a compound predicate H(a,b=3Dc,d). (My own unpublished solutiontakes this approach, with an inflectional machi= nery for encoding how two argument lists (e.g. & ) merge into = one (e.g. ).) =20 > Combinatory logic provides a notation based on S and K (or another > one based on B, C, K, and W) for expressing predicates without > explicit reference. > > Concatenative programming uses the idea of a stack to avoid explicit > reference. > > The J Programming Language uses ideas from the above to be very terse > and linear without explicit variables. Thanks for that, and I appreciate that you may well lack time or inclinatio= n to explain further, but if I'm to understand these promising-looking idea= s, I'd need a lot more handholding. --And. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.