Received: from mail-qc0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:43688) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T2fi5-0008Fw-Lm; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 02:53:01 -0700 Received: by qcac11 with SMTP id c11sf4854546qca.16 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 02:52:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=2ZqM/XLhJrSOdWUDnAIw8gUn3R5y0MsD0Crr8sQaWRI=; b=DdO4Ua8n7rBI6GMvcSAX+Hzk0DD44ESFHmpuvsw8UAJ34l2y9RiC+eqbm8wCcoti+s ewseRAbi/MPejd5ddzdxRo6y+1f3RkHTrOnmG6KHEcyYBABxs2PH0gHt3RHcAVoN7Kkp zWDz/0i1vqWLqE6Zv8tomqMCkrB5fTYHtSJnI= Received: by 10.52.23.145 with SMTP id m17mr1205563vdf.0.1345283562506; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 02:52:42 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.155.6 with SMTP id q6ls3496121vcw.3.gmail; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 02:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.249.242 with SMTP id yx18mr1861131vec.3.1345283561978; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 02:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.249.242 with SMTP id yx18mr1861130vec.3.1345283561971; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 02:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-f170.google.com (mail-vc0-f170.google.com [209.85.220.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c10si806143vdu.1.2012.08.18.02.52.41 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 18 Aug 2012 02:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.170; Received: by vcbgb30 with SMTP id gb30so4282284vcb.29 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 02:52:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.20.138 with SMTP id n10mr4159545vde.129.1345283561754; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 02:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.58.190.169 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 02:52:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <44e6fb5c-91f3-47ba-817c-8560c9c6ca14@googlegroups.com> <502B9E61.8060808@gmx.de> <502BA634.3030007@gmx.de> <502C50EB.3090704@gmail.com> <5f1664a8-ea52-4a70-8cce-7beb0b626ad6@googlegroups.com> Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 10:52:41 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro} From: tijlan To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: paskios@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=paskios@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / On 17 August 2012 15:45, Paul Predkiewicz wrote: >> A thing can be specific without being specified by the speaker. You >> are probably looking at some specific computer display but you can >> just leave it unspecified in your utterance by calling it "zo'e": a >> specific unspecified thing. > > > Ok, from the talker-perspective this might be true, but for the listener > there is no real difference between "he didn't tell me" (unspecified?) and > "he doesn't care" (unspecific?) > untill of course the talker continues and finaly does specify what he was > talking about. or stating he doesn't care. It's similar to how {lo} works, at least under xorlo. {lo plise} can refer to specific or non-specific apples -- a distinction that may be subjectively held by the speaker but objectively illegible to the listener. Some existing UI might help to disambiguate some of the differences: mi citka lo su'a plise I eat general instances of plise1. mi citka lo su'anai plise I eat particular instances of plise1. mi citka zo'e su'a I eat something general. mi citka zo'e su'anai I eat something particular. mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.