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Subject: Re: [lojban] modals inside description sumti (za'e "internal-modals") question
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On Saturday, August 18, 2012 6:25:21 AM UTC-5, selpa'i wrote:
>
> Am 18.08.2012 02:33, schrieb Pierre Abbat: 
> > You can't use BAI as a tense. It's a proper preposition; if you put it 
> just 
> > before the selbri, it adds a place to the predicate and leaves it 
> unfilled. 
> > 
> > A string of tense markers just before a selbri is grammatical: 
> > pu be'a sanli 
> > But a string of prepositions including BAI is not: 
> > *ca gau farvi 
> > *gau ca farvi 
> > ca farvi gau 
> > gau ku ca farvi 
> > *bai ta'i zbasu 
> > bai zbasu ta'i 
> This rule makes little sense and is an unnecessary restriction that 
> shouldn't (and in my opinion doesn't) even exist. I don't know why you 
> always mention "proper prepositions" and distinguish them from tenses. 
> There is no difference between tenses and BAI, they all add places to 
> the bridi, they all tag a sumti, they all can be used as selbri tcita, 
> which is like filling them with zo'e. 
>
I'm confused by this as well. I could almost understand not wanting to 
follow a tense with BAI, since {bai broda} expands to {bai zo'e broda} and 
preceding those with a {pu} is awkward (and I believe causes them to differ 
in meaning). However, I've always parsed {pu broda} as something that 
modifies the selbri and produces a nuanced selbri, which should always be 
able to be preceded by BAI, in my mind. That is:
{gau ca farvi} expands to {gau ku ca farvi} and nothing happened! Yay!

So, in my mind, it makes sense to be able to precede selbri with as many PU 
as desired, then as many BAI as desired. I'd like to be able to do the 
other order as well, just so long as nobody tries to split PU up, which is 
just silly.

mu'o mi'e djos

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On Saturday, August 18, 2012 6:25:21 AM UTC-5, selpa'i wrote:<blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">Am 18.08.2012 02:33, schrieb Pierre Abbat:
<br>&gt; You can't use BAI as a tense. It's a proper preposition; if you pu=
t it just
<br>&gt; before the selbri, it adds a place to the predicate and leaves it =
unfilled.
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; A string of tense markers just before a selbri is grammatical:
<br>&gt; pu be'a sanli
<br>&gt; But a string of prepositions including BAI is not:
<br>&gt; *ca gau farvi
<br>&gt; *gau ca farvi
<br>&gt; ca farvi gau
<br>&gt; gau ku ca farvi
<br>&gt; *bai ta'i zbasu
<br>&gt; bai zbasu ta'i
<br>This rule makes little sense and is an unnecessary restriction that=20
<br>shouldn't (and in my opinion doesn't) even exist. I don't know why you=
=20
<br>always mention "proper prepositions" and distinguish them from tenses.=
=20
<br>There is no difference between tenses and BAI, they all add places to=
=20
<br>the bridi, they all tag a sumti, they all can be used as selbri tcita,=
=20
<br>which is like filling them with zo'e.
<br></blockquote><div>I'm confused by this as well. I could almost understa=
nd not wanting to follow a tense with BAI, since {bai broda} expands to {ba=
i zo'e broda} and preceding those with a {pu} is awkward (and I believe cau=
ses them to differ in meaning). However, I've always parsed {pu broda} as s=
omething that modifies the selbri and produces a nuanced selbri, which shou=
ld always be able to be preceded by BAI, in my mind. That is:</div><div>{ga=
u ca farvi} expands to {gau ku ca farvi} and nothing happened! Yay!</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>So, in my mind, it makes sense to be able to precede selb=
ri with as many PU as desired, then as many BAI as desired. I'd like to be =
able to do the other order as well, just so long as nobody tries to split P=
U up, which is just silly.</div><div><br></div><div>mu'o mi'e djos</div>

<p></p>

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