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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 20:05:19 -0400
Message-ID: <CAOYwWb0m68-ocOA4N2Y++Q=GhW-QiTfcL3-0wrHVov2crza3-A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [lojban] Re: Zombie
From: "Mike S." <maikxlx@gmail.com>
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On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Mike S. <maikxlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Mike S. <maikxlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 2:07 PM, <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On , ".arpis." <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> > Not all uses of "zombie" (in English) involve a controller; e.g.
>>>>>> Left 4 Dead, Night of the Living Dead, Shawn of the Dead, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I've seen all those "BRAAAAIIINS" and green skin around but I
>>>>>> would favour the original Voodoo myth :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Also, I'd just like to note that I have difficulty pronouncing the
>>>>>> terminal {ii} to be distinct from {i}.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have a similar problem in Italian with "principii" (principles)
>>>>>> and "principi" (princes). With some exercise they come out very distinct.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It shouldn't be difficult at in Lojban. {ii} is a diphthong pronounced
>>>>> "YEE", {i} is a vowel pronounced "EE".
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What would be your take on fu'ivla containing {dii}?
>>>
>>>
>>> The same as my take on all fu'ivla: I don't like it.
>>>
>>> You'll have to be more specific if you want a better answer.
>>>
>>
>> Do you notice any difficulties with {dii}?
>>
>
> No. Should I?


Allowing {ii} after coronal sounds like {d} causes many fine minimal
contrasts - {di dzi dji zi ji} seems plenty; those with {dii dzii djii zii
jii} seems excessive.

For some people, plain semivowel {i} will be mixed up with some sort of
fricative or affricate even before OPEN vowels.   When you place it near
{i}, you are almost insisting that they (af)fricatize it.

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Jonatha=
n Jones <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">eyeonus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, =
Aug 18, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Mike S. <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ma=
ikxlx@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">maikxlx@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Jonathan J=
ones <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">eyeonus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex">


<div><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Mike =
S. <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:maikxlx@gmail.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">maikxlx@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex">



<div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Jonathan J=
ones <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">eyeonus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex">




<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 2:07 PM,  <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rdentato@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rdenta=
to@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div>On , &quot;.arpis.&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rpglover64%2Bjbobau@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt=
; Not all uses of &quot;zombie&quot; (in English) involve a controller; e.g=
. Left 4 Dead, Night of the Living Dead, Shawn of the Dead, etc.<br>





<br></div>Yes, I&#39;ve seen all those &quot;BRAAAAIIINS&quot; and green sk=
in around but I would favour the original Voodoo myth :)<div><br> <br>&gt; =
Also, I&#39;d just like to note that I have difficulty pronouncing the term=
inal {ii} to be distinct from {i}.<br>





<br></div>We have a similar problem in Italian with &quot;principii&quot; (=
principles) and &quot;principi&quot; (princes). With some exercise they com=
e out very distinct.

</blockquote></div><div><br>It shouldn&#39;t be difficult at in Lojban. {ii=
} is a diphthong pronounced &quot;YEE&quot;, {i} is a vowel pronounced &quo=
t;EE&quot;.<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br></font></span></div>
</div><span></span></blockquote></div><br></div>What would be your take on =
fu&#39;ivla containing {dii}?</blockquote></div><br></div></div>The same as=
 my take on all fu&#39;ivla: I don&#39;t like it.<br><br>You&#39;ll have to=
 be more specific if you want a better answer.<br>


</blockquote></div><div><br>Do you notice any difficulties with {dii}?</div=
></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>No. Should I?</blockquote></div><=
br>Allowing {ii} after coronal sounds like {d} causes many fine minimal con=
trasts - {di dzi dji zi ji} seems plenty; those with {dii dzii djii zii jii=
} seems excessive.=A0 <br>
<br>For some people, plain semivowel {i} will be mixed up with some sort of=
 fricative or affricate even before OPEN vowels. =A0 When you place it near=
 {i}, you are almost insisting that they (af)fricatize it. <br><br><br>

<p></p>

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