Received: from mail-ob0-f189.google.com ([209.85.214.189]:60768) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T2vOE-0005vC-CB; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 19:37:28 -0700 Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3sf5279405obb.16 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 19:37:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=xMJbCIvM7n38GgD0QWTT6C3o1EsNYpIFU5ADHbjlxuc=; b=nXQsZ0vcrnNmqbnFIp8zJLfhrg7eFPueii0HX5Tz6Kr1QQ/iH5mIN18CdpAepu6zbk vx8CMdbjPM1lr5RvZ8TCoYNbWVYThZIRE7j1mE5BQW9zNN6Fq7hSyNIqCBf1SfNWjrWY 6uNNCmHEy+UsAmEdIY+JxGQ/7/Crl0wz2HjCw= Received: by 10.68.132.233 with SMTP id ox9mr1333242pbb.10.1345343835335; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 19:37:15 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.210.197 with SMTP id mw5ls5570151pbc.7.gmail; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 19:37:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.223.66 with SMTP id qs2mr1403415pbc.18.1345343834625; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 19:37:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 19:37:14 -0700 (PDT) From: la gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Cc: la gleki , rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com Message-Id: <4e4d586e-9b38-4367-9bc8-6ac533896be3@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <23861931-0238-4ac4-a76e-60a8ea1b4d75@googlegroups.com> <502E37FF.5000500@gmx.de> <3c8e9a9a-2f9b-4c00-8052-ebe2605507c8@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [lojban] {ko}, {xa'e}, {.e'u}, {e'o} MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_696_2471753.1345343834233" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_696_2471753.1345343834233 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Saturday, August 18, 2012 11:37:31 PM UTC+4, .arpis. wrote: > > It is {e'o/pe'u}; it's also {ko} > > {ko e'o muvgau lo victerlu'i vi'opei .tit.} > > {ko} represents the part of the meaning that indicates that the listener > is expected to be active in making the sentence true. > {do e'o muvgau ...} - is it grammatical? > > On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 2:48 PM, la gleki > > wrote: > >> >> >> On Saturday, August 18, 2012 9:26:23 PM UTC+4, .arpis. wrote: >>> >>> "Go and take out the trash, will you, honey?" is an imperative. If you >>> tell me that it's also an order, I'll concede that we have different >>> definitions of "order". >>> >> It sounds like {.e'o/pe'u} >> >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 12:49 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 12:39 PM, .arpis. wrote: >>>> >>>>> That is absolutely false. {ko} is simply the word for an imperative >>>>> mood, with no other implications; it's not necessarily an order. >>>> >>>> >>>> Hunh? An imperative *is *necessarily an order. That's the definition >>>> of imperative. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 11:32 AM, la gleki wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> {.e'u} and {ko} largely differ in the fact that after insubmission >>>>>> after {ko} you might be executed by your commander whereas after {.e'u} you >>>>>> would probably survive. zo'o >>>>> >>>>> >>>> "Insubmission" is a new and useful word for me. Thanks for using it! >>>> >>>> stevo >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, August 17, 2012 4:24:31 PM UTC+4, selpa'i wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 17.08.2012 13:47, schrieb Paul Predkiewicz: >>>>>>> > but {xa'e} is a rafsi of {xance}, how would you use it to say such >>>>>>> > things as "let's go"? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -xa'e- is the rafsi, but xa'e as a cmavo is a LAhE (even though I >>>>>>> wish >>>>>>> it was UI) that makes it so that the sumti it's used on is treated >>>>>>> as if >>>>>>> it was ko, i.e. a third-person command. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> xa'e lo gerku cu cliva >>>>>>> "The dogs shall leave!" >>>>>>> "May the dogs leave!" >>>>>>> "I want the dogs to leave." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Whether it's very useful is another question. {.e'u} will usually be >>>>>>> enough for cohortatives at least. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ >>>>>> **msg/lojban/-/uwcGoYr3b0UJ >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@** >>>>>> googlegroups.com. >>>>>> >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>>>> group/lojban?hl=en . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@** >>>>> googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>>> group/lojban?hl=en . >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@** >>>> googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>> group/lojban?hl=en . >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >>> >>> > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .arpis. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/qNChjHHyOLwJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. ------=_Part_696_2471753.1345343834233 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Saturday, August 18, 2012 11:37:31 PM UTC+4, .arpis. wrote:It is {e'o/pe'u}; it's also {ko}
{ko e'o muvgau lo victerlu'i vi'opei .tit.}

{ko} represents the= part of the meaning that indicates that the listener is expected to be act= ive in making the sentence true.

{do e'o muvgau = ...} - is it grammatical?

On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 2:48 PM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, August 18, 2012 9:26:23 PM UTC+4, .arpis. wrote:<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border= -left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">"Go and take out the trash, will you= , honey?" is an imperative. If you tell me that it's also an order, I'll co= ncede that we have different definitions of "order".

It sounds like {.e'o/pe'u}

On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 12:49 PM, MorphemeAddict <l= yt...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 12:39 = PM, .arpis. <rpglover...@gmail.com> w= rote:

That is absolutely false. {ko} is simply the word for an imperative mood, w= ith no other implications; it's not necessarily an order.
=
Hunh? An imperative is necessarily an order. Th= at's the definition of imperative.

On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 11:32 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:

{.e'u} and {ko} largely differ in the fact t= hat after insubmission after {ko} you might be executed by your commander w= hereas after {.e'u} you would probably survive. zo'o

"Insubmission" is = a new and useful word for me. Thanks for using it!

stevo

On Friday, August 17, 2012 4:24:31 PM UTC+4, selpa'i wrote:Am 17.08.2012 13:47, schrieb Paul Predkiewi= cz:
> but {xa'e} is a rafsi of {xance}, how would you use it to say such= =20
> things as "let's go"?

-xa'e- is the rafsi, but xa'e as a cmavo is a LAhE (even though I wish= =20
it was UI) that makes it so that the sumti it's used on is treated as i= f=20
it was ko, i.e. a third-person command.

xa'e lo gerku cu cliva
"The dogs shall leave!"
"May the dogs leave!"
"I want the dogs to leave."

Whether it's very useful is another question. {.e'u} will usually be=20
enough for cohortatives at least.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

--=20
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com= /d/msg/lojban/-/uwcGoYr3b0UJ.

=20 To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@google= groups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/grou= p/lojban?hl=3Den.

=
--
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@google= groups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/grou= p/lojban?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.

To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@google= groups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/grou= p/lojban?hl=3Den.

--
= mu'o mi'e .arpis.

--
mu'o= mi'e .arpis.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/qN= ChjHHyOLwJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
------=_Part_696_2471753.1345343834233--