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Subject: Re: Re: [lojban] Re: Zombie
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On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 10:57 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Mike S. <maikxlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm not talking about what should and should not be allowed. All I'm
>>> saying is that in Lojban, {ii}, is pronounced "yee", and {i} is pronounced
>>> "ee".
>>
>>
>> But no one disputes those pronunciations.  What's being discussed is
>> whether it is a *good idea* to use it in fu'ivla like suggested {dzombii}.
>> It was already pointed out that {ii} is difficult for many globally.   In
>> fact, {ii} is very marginal even in Lojban.  TTBOMK it was totally kept out
>> of native vocabulary except for the interjection {.ii}, which I think was
>> wise.  It'd probably be best to generally keep it and {uu} out of fu'ivla
>> too.
>>
>
> The reason I brought it up is because someone was comparing {i} and {ii}
> to the single and double "i" in "principii" vs. "principi", which to my
> knowledge is a false comparison, because the difference between "i" and
> "ii" in THAT examples is not pronunciation, but vowel length ("ee" vs.
> "eeee").
>
>
Are you sure?  I didn't think that Standard Italian distinguished vowel
lengths.  I looked up "principii" and it can only be the plural of
"principio".  The singular "principio" is pronounced with Lojban-like {io}
i.e. IPA [jo].  It is conceivable that *some* Italians say [ji] for {ii}
through analogy.  That's just a guess, admittedly.

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 10:57 PM, Jonath=
an Jones <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">eyeonus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"h5">On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 8=
:27 PM, Mike S. <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:maikxlx@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">maikxlx@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">

<div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Jonathan J=
ones <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">eyeonus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex">


<div><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"></div><br></div></div>I&#39;m not talk=
ing about what should and should not be allowed. All I&#39;m saying is that=
 in Lojban, {ii}, is pronounced &quot;yee&quot;, and {i} is pronounced &quo=
t;ee&quot;.</blockquote>


</div><br></div>But no one disputes those pronunciations.=A0 What&#39;s bei=
ng discussed is whether it is a *good idea* to use it in fu&#39;ivla like s=
uggested {dzombii}.=A0 It was already
pointed out that {ii} is difficult for many globally.=A0=A0 In fact, {ii} i=
s
 very marginal even in Lojban.=A0 TTBOMK it was totally kept out of native=
=20
vocabulary except for the interjection {.ii}, which I think was wise.=A0 It=
&#39;d probably be=20
best to generally keep it and {uu} out of fu&#39;ivla too.<br></blockquote>=
</div></div><div><br>The reason I brought it up is because someone was comp=
aring {i} and {ii} to the single and double &quot;i&quot; in &quot;principi=
i&quot; vs. &quot;principi&quot;, which to my knowledge is a false comparis=
on, because the difference between &quot;i&quot; and &quot;ii&quot; in THAT=
 examples is not pronunciation, but vowel length (&quot;ee&quot; vs. &quot;=
eeee&quot;).<br>

</div></div><br></blockquote></div><br>Are you sure?=A0 I didn&#39;t think =
that Standard Italian distinguished vowel lengths.=A0 I looked up &quot;pri=
ncipii&quot; and it can only be the plural of &quot;principio&quot;.=A0 The=
 singular &quot;principio&quot; is pronounced with Lojban-like {io} i.e. IP=
A [jo].=A0 It is conceivable that *some* Italians say [ji] for {ii} through=
 analogy.=A0 That&#39;s just a guess, admittedly.<br>
<br><br><br><br><br>

<p></p>

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