Received: from mail-pb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]:49557) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T2xOp-0007iM-6w; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 21:46:12 -0700 Received: by pbbrp2 with SMTP id rp2sf3557827pbb.16 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 21:46:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=JN/U+a48vc6TEigWr6ndAabQYPHi0GoqNGckDmOhUxE=; b=w6rBvD+9g499ehmHLB3AiPqnFUp/5PONtXQ6O/mSkJjxMAwM5pQOlDz7Xnp3k5ASPn cj6Q9wl8Ph9m8/qLqdF/yykfLvPuQfdXJZqnUfMzHIW8605Te5AKsWOEHNvvy2BMW/A6 w/IkMaCyxuPFvAvj0WQ+ZDz7gslGRyICy6cQk= Received: by 10.50.171.102 with SMTP id at6mr1283952igc.6.1345351560595; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 21:46:00 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.100.231 with SMTP id fb7ls3538402igb.1.canary; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 21:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.157.130 with SMTP id wm2mr3092118igb.4.1345351559934; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 21:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.157.130 with SMTP id wm2mr3092117igb.4.1345351559906; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 21:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-f176.google.com (mail-ob0-f176.google.com [209.85.214.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id zu7si1805084igb.3.2012.08.18.21.45.59 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 18 Aug 2012 21:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.176; Received: by mail-ob0-f176.google.com with SMTP id tb18so9936116obb.35 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 21:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.48.8 with SMTP id h8mr7418580obn.75.1345351559741; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 21:45:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.76.132.2 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Aug 2012 21:45:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <683d860a-1d75-4f50-995e-0d14af26fe81@googlegroups.com> References: <23861931-0238-4ac4-a76e-60a8ea1b4d75@googlegroups.com> <502E37FF.5000500@gmx.de> <3c8e9a9a-2f9b-4c00-8052-ebe2605507c8@googlegroups.com> <4e4d586e-9b38-4367-9bc8-6ac533896be3@googlegroups.com> <683d860a-1d75-4f50-995e-0d14af26fe81@googlegroups.com> From: ".arpis." Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 00:45:39 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] {ko}, {xa'e}, {.e'u}, {e'o} To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04462fe4d1008904c797111b X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d04462fe4d1008904c797111b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > That makes sense. > If {ko} is just an imperative in it's generalized meaning then {.e'o} and > {COMMAND} would modify it. It has been > already discussed that {ko} probably has no shade of harshness. Which leads > to another question: > How to say "{COMMAND/ORDER} ko klama"? Again new cmavo? Or just {le'o}? > I wouldn't use {le'o}; I'd lean toward {ga'i}, and possibly {.ei} > > One more question, whats the difference between {pe'u do}, {pe'u ko} and > {ko .e'o}? > I'm not _sure_, but I'll try. I'd stay away from {pe'u ko} for a similar reason that I stay away from mixing {ko} and {do} in the same bridi; I haven't found a good use for it, and I think it usually causes more confusion than it benefits from the subtleties. {ko .e'o} marks the imperative as a request as opposed to e.g. an order, a suggestion, or an instruction. {pe'u do} is a form I'd avoid, opting to put a name where {do} is. >>>>>>> Hunh? An imperative *is *necessarily an order. That's the >>>>>>> definition of imperative. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 11:32 AM, la gleki wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> {.e'u} and {ko} largely differ in the fact that after insubmission >>>>>>>>> after {ko} you might be executed by your commander whereas after {.e'u} you >>>>>>>>> would probably survive. zo'o >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Insubmission" is a new and useful word for me. Thanks for using it! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> stevo >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, August 17, 2012 4:24:31 PM UTC+4, selpa'i wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Am 17.08.2012 13:47, schrieb Paul Predkiewicz: >>>>>>>>>> > but {xa'e} is a rafsi of {xance}, how would you use it to say >>>>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>>> > things as "let's go"? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -xa'e- is the rafsi, but xa'e as a cmavo is a LAhE (even though I >>>>>>>>>> wish >>>>>>>>>> it was UI) that makes it so that the sumti it's used on is >>>>>>>>>> treated as if >>>>>>>>>> it was ko, i.e. a third-person command. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> xa'e lo gerku cu cliva >>>>>>>>>> "The dogs shall leave!" >>>>>>>>>> "May the dogs leave!" >>>>>>>>>> "I want the dogs to leave." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Whether it's very useful is another question. {.e'u} will usually >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> enough for cohortatives at least. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo >>>>>>>>>> lejbo >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/**ms****g/lojban/-/uwcGoYr3b0UJ >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@** >>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>>>>>>> group****/lojban?hl=en >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@** >>>>>>>> googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>>>>>> group****/lojban?hl=en >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@** >>>>>>> googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>>>>> group****/lojban?hl=en >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >>>> >>>> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >> >> -- mu'o mi'e .arpis. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --f46d04462fe4d1008904c797111b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That mak= es sense.
If {ko} is just an imperative in it's generalized m= eaning then {.e'o} and {COMMAND} would modify it. It has=A0been already discussed that {ko} probably has no shade of ha= rshness. Which leads to another question:
How to say "{COMMAND/ORDER} ko klama"? Again new cmavo? Or j= ust {le'o}?

I wouldn't use {le'o}; I= 'd lean toward {ga'i}, and possibly {.ei}

One more question, whats the difference between {pe'= ;u do}, {pe'u ko} and {ko .e'o}?

I'm= not _sure_, but I'll try. I'd stay away from {pe'u ko} for a s= imilar reason that I stay away from mixing {ko} and {do} in the same bridi;= I haven't found a good use for it, and I think it usually causes more = confusion than it benefits from the subtleties. {ko .e'o} marks the imp= erative as a request as opposed to e.g. an order, a suggestion, or an instr= uction. {pe'u do} is a form I'd avoid, opting to put a name where {= do} is.


Hunh? An imperative is necessarily an order. That's the definition of imperative.=A0

On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 11:32 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
{.e'u} and {ko} largely differ in the fa= ct that after insubmission after {ko} you might be executed by your command= er whereas after {.e'u} you would probably survive. zo'o

"Insubmission= " is a new and useful word for me. Thanks for using it!

=
stevo=A0


On Friday, August 17, 2012 4:24:31 PM UTC+4, selpa'i wrote:Am 17.08.2012 13:47, schrieb Paul Predk= iewicz:
> but {xa'e} is a rafsi of {xance}, how would you use it to say = such=20
> things as "let's go"?

-xa'e- is the rafsi, but xa'e as a cmavo is a LAhE (even though= I wish=20
it was UI) that makes it so that the sumti it's used on is treated = as if=20
it was ko, i.e. a third-person command.

=A0 =A0 =A0xa'e lo gerku cu cliva
=A0 =A0 =A0"The dogs shall leave!"
=A0 =A0 =A0"May the dogs leave!"
=A0 =A0 =A0"I want the dogs to leave."

Whether it's very useful is another question. {.e'u} will usual= ly be=20
enough for cohortatives at least.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

--=20
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo

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=20 To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@google= groups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/grou= p/lojban?hl=3Den.



=
--
mu'o mi'e .arpis.
<= /span>


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--
= mu'o mi'e .arpis.




--
mu&#= 39;o mi'e .arpis.




-- mu'o mi'e .arpis.




-- mu'o mi'e .arpis.

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