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Subject: Re: [lojban] Cowan's summary: opacity and sumti-raising
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Welcome to the club.  Yes, a full Montague analysis would be the surest hop=
e for a solution to all problems, but nobody since Richard has been up to d=
oing that, so we stick with piecemeal solutions (which is all he actually l=
eft).  A good analysis of words like {djicu} and {nitcu} would be a good st=
art (I know the basics but can't see the specifics).
Sent from my iPad

On Aug 20, 2012, at 1:42 PM, "Mike S." <maikxlx@gmail.com> wrote:

>=20
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 1:38 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> w=
rote:
> If my memory serves, running seems the best idea.  It now appears that th=
e previous thread apparently about {ro} and "any" was actually about the (a=
pparently) odd behavior of quantifiers in the proximity to intensional cont=
exts and so there is probably a double issue at hand. =20
> {do djicu le nu do citka ma} is a real world question embedded in an tran=
sworld context, so its answer turns out to reflect both its antecedents, wi=
th the issue being (at least partly) just where the quantifier goes in the =
the whole dialogue scheme.  To this there are many answers, none of them to=
tally satisfactory nor generally agreed to, so a long storm is likely.  But=
 I am (after all these years) a pessimist, so stick around for at least a w=
hile and see if something useful doesn't turn up.
>=20
> IMHO only a careful and thorough formalization that posits exactly _one_ =
semantic interpretation rule for _each_ syntactic operation has the chance =
to clear up such issues once and for all.  Such a formalization wouldn't ha=
ve to be like Montague's program in all the exact details, but it would hav=
e to be something much like it in terms of degree of rigor.
>=20
> In the meantime I'll stick around and even chime in from time to t
>=20
> =20
>=20
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=
 "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr=
oups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb=
an?hl=3Den.

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<html><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>Welcome to the club. &nbsp;Yes, a full=
 Montague analysis would be the surest hope for a solution to all problems,=
 but nobody since Richard has been up to doing that, so we stick with piece=
meal solutions (which is all he actually left). &nbsp;A good analysis of wo=
rds like {djicu} and {nitcu} would be a good start (I know the basics but c=
an't see the specifics).</div><div>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Aug 2=
0, 2012, at 1:42 PM, "Mike S." &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:maikxlx@gmail.com">mai=
kxlx@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"c=
ite"><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 1:38 PM, J=
ohn E Clifford <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kali9putra@yahoo.com=
" target=3D"_blank"><a href=3D"mailto:kali9putra@yahoo.com">kali9putra@yaho=
o.com</a></a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,time=
s,serif"><div><span>If my memory serves, running seems the best idea.&nbsp;=
 It now appears that the previous thread apparently about {ro} and "any" wa=
s actually about the (apparently) odd behavior of quantifiers in the proxim=
ity to intensional contexts and so there is probably a double issue at hand=
.&nbsp; <br>
</span></div><div><span>{do djicu le nu do citka ma} is a real world questi=
on embedded in an transworld context, so its answer turns out to reflect bo=
th its antecedents, with the issue being (at least partly) just where the q=
uantifier goes in the the whole dialogue scheme.&nbsp; To this there are ma=
ny answers, none of them totally satisfactory nor generally agreed to, so a=
 long storm is likely.&nbsp; But I am (after all these years) a pessimist, =
so stick around for at least a while and see if something useful doesn't tu=
rn
 up.</span><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>
IMHO only a careful and thorough formalization that posits exactly _one_ se=
mantic interpretation rule for=20
_each_ syntactic operation has the chance to clear up such issues once and =
for all.&nbsp; Such a formalization wouldn't have to be like Montague's=20
program=20
in all the exact details, but it would have to be something much like it in=
 terms of degree of rigor.<br>
<br>
In the meantime I'll stick around and even chime in from time to t<br><br>&=
nbsp;</div></div><br>

<p></p>

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roup/lojban?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></blockquote></body></html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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