Received: from mail-wg0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]:34795) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T4gGl-000724-Q3; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:53:03 -0700 Received: by wgbdr13 with SMTP id dr13sf367292wgb.16 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:52:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jsHo98L7Xc0mc3IH/YiK51bb4bxnJg2NwaIZXY8VUIo=; b=edX6RcoeBAwXpWHpXwRHYirxuHklQIhIlAl4L+phW8kwxL+YDWuvWVU4Aj7EEHVcVx 4BKy1dshpGKnohWZGuKd8bRenyo2leKrtV1S0/yWCI8xep+1qOSZu41BjW2Lj4whnvew SUVcZl2Eb5cvvqMHocTxhTJrc+pDYJnvH5zj2q9XHeKYUY8tb9vHQvLa/f0Jxy8FNeJc ADe7TMIvdU/1ud4d26n0iVAAPNmFdstHT4NI6QeiE7/AwU2jZOrsOuvhwYAavVZn69L9 PwhHR8h8dtFuksDZFeiNnay9rfQ0vhDScpntk2u8WlDI6a9Pe0xyKJFk2xG/AKwWRt6q wKfg== Received: by 10.180.84.230 with SMTP id c6mr7015wiz.2.1345762368123; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:52:48 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.83.226 with SMTP id t2ls1291603wiy.3.canary; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.88.195 with SMTP id bi3mr20834wib.3.1345762367507; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.88.195 with SMTP id bi3mr20833wib.3.1345762367498; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-f170.google.com (mail-we0-f170.google.com [74.125.82.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hm1si113232wib.3.2012.08.23.15.52.47 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.170; Received: by weyr1 with SMTP id r1so766289wey.29 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.95.193 with SMTP id dm1mr334603wib.10.1345762367302; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.77] (87-194-76-177.bethere.co.uk. [87.194.76.177]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h9sm1115608wiz.1.2012.08.23.15.52.43 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:52:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5036B43B.8040703@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 23:52:43 +0100 From: And Rosta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.28) Gecko/20120306 Thunderbird/3.1.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Direction of Rotation References: <4bce1b85-1742-4819-bebf-3f3ffe9162e2@googlegroups.com> <1344787920.72396.YahooMailNeo@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <9c8f151a-c423-4d97-9f5c-d2c5fcade18c@googlegroups.com> <502880CD.8070301@gmail.com> <9bab9050-eb6b-45e5-ab08-9b982d8746dc@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <9bab9050-eb6b-45e5-ab08-9b982d8746dc@googlegroups.com> X-Original-Sender: and.rosta@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=and.rosta@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Gleki Arxokuna, On 13/08/2012 06:00: > On Monday, August 13, 2012 8:50:01 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: > You don't seem to understand what culturally neutral means. If there = is no culture that does a certain thing differently than the other cultures= , than us also doing it that way is /not/ culturally biased. In order for i= t to be biased, it has to be something one (subset) of the various cultures= do in this way. > > I understand. Let's wait until such culture is discovered. But I doubt wh= ether there are languages that have separate words for "clockwise" that are= not derived from metaphors. English _deasil_ ("clockwise") and _widdershins_ ("anticlockwise") have no = transparent etymology or metaphoric basis. But, as I pointed out in the 199= 5 thread that Jorge linked to, in traditional English culture _widdershins_= is clearly understood culturally as turning leftwards. I would not accept = that "turn rightwards/leftwards" aren't culturally neutral tho, since they = must be quasi-universals cognitively, similarly understandable by every cul= ture that distinguishes left from right. --And. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.