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Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 14:10:27 +0100
From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro}
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la gleki, On 25/08/2012 08:10:
>
>
> On Friday, August 24, 2012 5:08:51 AM UTC+4, And Rosta wrote:
>
>     la gleki, On 20/08/2012 09:53:
>
>      > On Thursday, August 16, 2012 5:46:19 AM UTC+4, And Rosta wrote:
>      > So "mi citka ma kau" would mean not "I eat anything" but rather "I=
 eat whatever it is that I eat" -- because "do djuno lo du'u mi citka ma ka=
u" means "Whatever it is that I eat, you know know that I eat it" =3D "You =
know what I eat".
>      >
>      > That makes "mi citka ma kau" still possibly useful, but doesn't gi=
ve us a way to say "I eat anything". For that, I suggest "ro da su'o mu'ei =
ku mi citka da", "ro da ka'e ku mi citka da", "I could eat anything", or el=
se "ro da ro mu'ei ku mi citka da", "I would eat anything".
>      >
>      > Two questions.
>      > 1. Don't you think that it can mean "for each specific x in a
>      > possible world it's possible/necessary that I will eat it".
>
>     It means "For each x, it is the case that in all/some circumstances/e=
ventualities I will/would/can/could eat it". Which is what "I will/would/ca=
n/could eat anything means", no?
>
> Please don't translate {su'omu'ei} as "...I will/would/can/could eat it "=
 because it explains nothing.

I translated it as "in some circumstances/eventualities"...

> Let's use your definition from the wiki for instance.
> /mi su'o mu'ei citka/=3D "... there are possible worlds wherein I eat"
>
> Let's try to describe "da" which will mean some apples present in our bas=
ket.
> We'll describe the situation *"I could eat any apple from that basket"*.
> Let's take {ro da su'omu'ei ku mi mi citka da}. It will mean "For each x =
which can mean different things in different possible worlds I eat this x".
> However, "I could eat any of these apples" describes the apples present i=
n this world.

Those same apples exist in infinitely many worlds.

> "any" in this sentence means that the choice is distributed over real
> apples, not over what each apple turns into in some possible worlds.

That's not what "any" itself means. The apples in question remain the same =
across possible worlds.

"ro da poi me le plise zo'u mi su'o mu'ei citka da" means "Each of these ap=
plies is such that there is some possible world/circumstance/eventuality in=
 which I eat it".

> In other words, "da su'omu'ei ku" can mean one specific object that
> can be other than apple but "da su'omu'ei ku" doesn't express that
> these options refer only to the set of apples present in this
> basket.

No, but "da poi me le plise" does. Your problem has to do with the lack of =
restriction on da, not on the introduction of "suo'o mu'ei".

> I'd express our situation as {mi su'omu'ei ku citka lo su'a plise pe
> ti poi lanka}> And {mi su'omu'ei ku citka lo su'anai plise pe ti poi
> lanka} - describes some specific apples present in this basket. =3D "I
> could eat some specific apples (that I have in mind) present in this
> basket".

Delete {su'a} because it adds nothing to the logical form:

{mi su'omu'ei ku citka lo plise pe ti poi lanka [ke'a]}

Your sentence(s) mean "I could eat the basketed apple(s) here". It doesn't =
have the "any" meaning (except to the extent that it's included within the =
broad interpretation of {lo}).

--And.

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