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Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2012 02:32:10 -0600
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj03YBfz59_RE5bLrG5MKUsRde7xwBF8RBMZUTSwRG90nA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis.
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 2:14 AM, Michael Everson
<michael.everson@gmail.com>wrote:

> On 26 Aug 2012, at 08:28, Jonathan Jones wrote:
>
> >> Well, I'm thinking in terms of performance. You have a narrator... Say=
,
> Christopher Plummer is reading the text (as he does magnificently) and th=
en
> he wants to change his voice when Alice is speaking. So when he is readin=
g,
> using his normal voice for the narration and a falsetto voice for Alice..=
..
> are lu...liu falsetto, or normal?
> >>
> >> I think normal.
> >
> > Okay, first, what does "falsetto or not" have to do with the location i=
n
> the text of the guillemots?
>
> It seems to me that the guillemots should flank what is said by the
> character, not by the narrator. That is the way in which quotation marks
> are used.
>
> > Second, IIRC, non-Lojban equivalency symbols of Lojban words are only
> allowed to be after the Lojban word, as in xu?, lu=AB, and li'u=BB.
>
> Daddy is reading a story to Mary. Daddy is doing the voices. Does
> Daddy-as-narrator say "lu" and "li'u", or does Daddy-as-Alice say "lu" an=
d
> "li'u"?
>
> The way you have it, with lu=AB and li'u=BB, would imply that
> Daddy-as-narrator says "lu" but that Daddy-as-Alice will say "li'u".
>

No, because the "=BB" is not the ending quotation mark. The "li'u" is.


> Michael
>
> Regarding "xu?" the typographical stricture is rather odd. In Chinese one
> asks "Ni hao ma?" where there is a redundant question mark by the questio=
n
> particle. In Irish one asks "An bhfuil t=FA ceart go leor?" with the ques=
tion
> mark ending the sentence -- but the question particle is the first word
> "an". Nevertheless one does not write "An? dtuigeann t=FA."
>
>
It may be odd, but it's Lojban. A lot of things in Lojban are "odd". And in
this respect, All foreign symbols, such as !?"=AB=BB#$ etc., are entirely
redundant and only serve to help non-proficient readers. In this respect it
is more like your Chinese example, as the symbols are /always/ adjacent to
the Lojban word they represent.

--=20
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--=20
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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 2:14 AM, Michael Everson=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michael.everson@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">michael.everson@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im">On 26 Aug 2012, at 08:28, Jonathan Jones wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt;&gt; Well, I&#39;m thinking in terms of performance. You have a narrato=
r... Say, Christopher Plummer is reading the text (as he does magnificently=
) and then he wants to change his voice when Alice is speaking. So when he =
is reading, using his normal voice for the narration and a falsetto voice f=
or Alice.... are lu...liu falsetto, or normal?<br>

&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; I think normal.<br>
&gt;<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; Okay, first, what does &quot;falsetto or not&q=
uot; have to do with the location in the text of the guillemots?<br>
<br>
</div>It seems to me that the guillemots should flank what is said by the c=
haracter, not by the narrator. That is the way in which quotation marks are=
 used.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; Second, IIRC, non-Lojban equivalency symbols of Lojban words are only =
allowed to be after the Lojban word, as in xu?, lu=AB, and li&#39;u=BB.<br>
<br>
</div>Daddy is reading a story to Mary. Daddy is doing the voices. Does Dad=
dy-as-narrator say &quot;lu&quot; and &quot;li&#39;u&quot;, or does Daddy-a=
s-Alice say &quot;lu&quot; and &quot;li&#39;u&quot;?<br>
<br>
The way you have it, with lu=AB and li&#39;u=BB, would imply that Daddy-as-=
narrator says &quot;lu&quot; but that Daddy-as-Alice will say &quot;li&#39;=
u&quot;.<br></blockquote><div><br>No, because the &quot;=BB&quot; is not th=
e ending quotation mark. The &quot;li&#39;u&quot; is.<br>
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

Michael<br>
<br>
Regarding &quot;xu?&quot; the typographical stricture is rather odd. In Chi=
nese one asks &quot;Ni hao ma?&quot; where there is a redundant question ma=
rk by the question particle. In Irish one asks &quot;An bhfuil t=FA ceart g=
o leor?&quot; with the question mark ending the sentence -- but the questio=
n particle is the first word &quot;an&quot;. Nevertheless one does not writ=
e &quot;An? dtuigeann t=FA.&quot;<br>

<br></blockquote></div><br>It may be odd, but it&#39;s Lojban. A lot of thi=
ngs in Lojban are &quot;odd&quot;. And in this respect, All foreign symbols=
, such as !?&quot;=AB=BB#$ etc., are entirely redundant and only serve to h=
elp non-proficient readers. In this respect it is more like your Chinese ex=
ample, as the symbols are /always/ adjacent to the Lojban word they represe=
nt.<br clear=3D"all">
<br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo piln=
o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Lu=
ke, I am your father. :D )<br><br>

<p></p>

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