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On 26 Aug 2012, at 09:32, Jonathan Jones wrote:

>> Daddy is reading a story to Mary. Daddy is doing the voices. Does Daddy-=
as-narrator say "lu" and "li'u", or does Daddy-as-Alice say "lu" and "li'u"=
?
>>=20
>> The way you have it, with lu=C2=AB and li'u=C2=BB, would imply that Dadd=
y-as-narrator says "lu" but that Daddy-as-Alice will say "li'u".
>=20
> No, because the "=C2=BB" is not the ending quotation mark. The "li'u" is.

No, because "li'u" is a quotation-ending word, not quotation-ending punctua=
tion. Punctuation and capitalization is merely decorative: the words of the=
 text as spoken should be the same as the words of the text as written, and=
 any use of punctuation and capitalization may be made for clarity can easi=
ly be stripped out and the underlying text would be the same.=20

>> Regarding "xu?" the typographical stricture is rather odd. In Chinese on=
e asks "Ni hao ma?" where there is a redundant question mark by the questio=
n particle. In Irish one asks "An bhfuil t=C3=BA ceart go leor?" with the q=
uestion mark ending the sentence -- but the question particle is the first =
word "an". Nevertheless one does not write "An? dtuigeann t=C3=BA."
>=20
> It may be odd, but it's Lojban. A lot of things in Lojban are "odd".

That doesn't make them user-friendly or functional. :-)

> And in this respect, All foreign symbols, such as !?"=C2=AB=C2=BB#$ etc.,=
 are entirely redundant and only serve to help non-proficient readers.

They are redundant, yes, and may "serve to help non-proficient readers" but=
 that is not their only function. Punctuation and capitalization are the ru=
le and not the exception for languages which write using the Latin script. =
Since most everyone who comes to Lojban comes to it from one of those langu=
ages, it makes little sense for Lojban to jettison typographic richness for=
 an aesthetic of sparseness. (That's my opinion anyway.)

> In this respect it is more like your Chinese example, as the symbols are =
/always/ adjacent to the Lojban word they represent.

They are "always" there only when people choose to put them there. Esperant=
o's question particle "=C4=89u" comes at the beginning of a sentences just =
as the Lojban "xu" often does, yet the question mark is placed at the end o=
f the sentence in Esperanto without any loss of meaning or confusion.

Michael

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