Received: from mail-pb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]:54913) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T5gm3-0001hC-LO; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 10:37:27 -0700 Received: by pbbrp2 with SMTP id rp2sf3764606pbb.16 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 10:37:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id :x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:message-id:date:from:reply-to :subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=s/5xGRTq3vj0ueBsrInXFOKFcwLXkZQaMtj1J3x8W2o=; b=w71B+1if3zwB0jPq49d1MQtgNQQBple2sT66uffU1J2+Bg2nID7Jok56RDtEJ8i+eg Wzan6l3mq1hRfQ/l1jgzPhshqsJmh8uRc4Cc7acyC9hqfOAlweUhQV69MyRib4c4HjWM 6Ks3Wi9izpn13i8xo5DI7mU2BhE9XNUuoCxuYEomJ6PjpAyk7Ipk/guwKuSPFLtzFYy2 aYHt6kChv846gg5UMTTvX+qMOqrvmt/XWussqqtmjm02HmhrMZE2mQ18DKCKAyf3LArU ++xG6QrQI4n+XjDRDAKiFxcxcbH3RW7L0GymUFo5Bl54oMM1O13ZX/MNeyKy2B+JewUZ Xulg== Received: by 10.52.99.73 with SMTP id eo9mr1468788vdb.10.1346002629237; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 10:37:09 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.156.112 with SMTP id wd16ls2532189vdb.6.gmail; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 10:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.254.39 with SMTP id af7mr3913062ved.41.1346002628576; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 10:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.254.39 with SMTP id af7mr3913061ved.41.1346002628556; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 10:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm34-vm3.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm34-vm3.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com. [72.30.239.75]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id cf2si3047418vdb.0.2012.08.26.10.37.08; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 10:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 72.30.239.75 as permitted sender) client-ip=72.30.239.75; Received: from [98.139.212.145] by nm34.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Aug 2012 17:37:08 -0000 Received: from [209.191.108.97] by tm2.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Aug 2012 17:37:07 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.110] by t4.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Aug 2012 17:37:07 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1015.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Aug 2012 17:37:07 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 789362.36502.bm@omp1015.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 20344 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Aug 2012 17:37:07 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: F3C13RIVM1mrjIcb7nvQeSO6YyR66t4nBqCa1Fbo.8zY88u endVUtFiJl8Qj0.OgxopAqgHV.jAh6.hu6vQvP8oxh_Bc8616crO1MwaAi8m P9pjA6mW8qrm5iym505Xw9ISDirt.gErkD9yrRAJjZ8bKAGbpMKEOwWDmQCF ud8pTXCb0qyui6fPH_cKaZiT4SbpswJF0sPTCnTyxaScrMTc6DvZVhqmaCUn Wq2lPpLCd_NfSPJoWe_LCnClhtfwSYXkKNwEmHoXtmXVY.iQDlJDQF.ua2YI RiQyJDxU_DqRD7bSwl9fZeh8V14YHLXOauoLpYPtX69HSAt45o1D2lMiKFNI lg39YlJo6ywfHR73pHDUCcmbn8e59yQPePNODJnx9I5.qyfPEqDD.OC7qalO TDo2GghMEeTaXBXJtVpOQOd.kabiLz3DpmhG7XrDQSmltlBXafa2I9_s.zkN l8WPUN25X5wNi6gkkzorx7xU0Qx3q2TmckiVNdKrFIkztdERryY8qID5GL2Y yC5jA7T5aOsPNs.b4ocrrjnPrPhFMH9EH4btXycZKhdmtJjmf8OVe5VdpLgU NthE493zEoSEhfA.2HlYZQrUL1MKU_EbERZujCn_thNIz Received: from [99.92.108.194] by web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 10:37:07 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.121.416 References: <44e6fb5c-91f3-47ba-817c-8560c9c6ca14@googlegroups.com> <502B9E61.8060808@gmx.de> <502BA634.3030007@gmx.de> <502C50EB.3090704@gmail.com> <7e604d79-8ecd-4690-bc39-bf48b601d46f@googlegroups.com> <5036D423.5050101@gmail.com> <34c8db6a-3ddd-48cb-b36c-2748ed06d72d@googlegroups.com> <20120825132428.GB25027@samsa> <5039220D.4030304@gmail.com> <2e2d09e2-7d8d-4bd1-9787-ad38e12f8c68@googlegroups.com> <1345946245.41308.YahooMailNeo@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4868ea50-8958-4111-abc1-f29525d74d4e@googlegroups.com> <1345997543.40403.YahooMailNeo@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1346002627.72843.YahooMailNeo@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2012 10:37:07 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro} To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" In-Reply-To: <1345997543.40403.YahooMailNeo@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 72.30.239.75 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-6906265-1017250213-1346002627=:72843" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ---6906265-1017250213-1346002627=:72843 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So, then we can rely on pragmatics.=A0 To answer merely "something" is, by = the Rule of Quantity, inadequate, if you have druthers.=A0 But, assuming --= as we always should -- that you are cooperating, this is adequate and, the= refore, you have no preferences: "anything will do". ________________________________ From: John E Clifford To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" =20 Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro} =20 Relying on pragmatics is best when the semantics is sound, which is not cle= ar here.=A0 I can't parse {nabyplane} off hand, so I'll skip that and also = the awkwardness of having both {tu'a} and the elided predicate {citka} pres= ent.=A0 The scope of {ma} is problematic: is it this world, where, admitted= ly, the answer presumably lies, or the world of {lo nu do citka}, where the= language places it?=A0 Happily, the answer is a this-worldly {da}, which c= overs the difference smoothly (the event world presumably in these cases in= cludes the relevant portions of the actual world and, perhaps, then some). ________________________________ From: .arpis. To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20 Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 10:14 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro} =20 I wonder if we can rely on pragmatics... {tu'a ma poi nabyplane do citka se djica} {.i da} We do have which, I think: {ma poi} On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 10:25 PM, la .lindar. wro= te: To play devil's advocate, I think an unquantified sumti is pretty much what= we want. > > >However, we don't have "which", so we don't really have "any". > > >"Which sandwich do you want?" > > >"Any sandwhich is fine." > > >In Lojban I wouldn't say it that way. > > >{.i ko cuxna fi loi snuji} or summat. > > >Whatever... I'm out of opinions/suggestions. >--=20 >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups = "lojban" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo= jban/-/_yaqp1NSe-wJ. > >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegro= ups.com. >For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den. > --=20 mu'o mi'e .arpis. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. ---6906265-1017250213-1346002627=:72843 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So, then we can rely = on pragmatics.  To answer merely "something" is, by the Rule of Quanti= ty, inadequate, if you have druthers.  But, assuming -- as we always s= hould -- that you are cooperating, this is adequate and, therefore, you hav= e no preferences: "anything will do".

<= br>

From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" <lojban@goog= legroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 11:12 AM
Subject= : Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro}

Rely= ing on pragmatics is best when the semantics is sound, which is not clear h= ere.  I can't parse {nabyplane} off hand, so I'll skip that and also t= he awkwardness of having both {tu'a} and the elided predicate {citka} prese= nt.  The scope of {ma} is problematic: is it this world, where, admitt= edly, the answer presumably lies, or the world of {lo nu do citka}, where t= he language places it?  Happily, the answer is a this-worldly {da}, wh= ich covers the difference smoothly (the event world presumably in these cas= es includes the relevant portions of the actual world and, perhaps, then so= me).


From: .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>
= To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 2= 5, 2012 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro}

I wonder if we can rely on pragmatics...

{t= u'a ma poi nabyplane do citka se djica}
{.i da}

We do have which,= I think: {ma poi}

On Sat, Au= g 25, 2012 at 10:25 PM, la .lindar. <lindarthebard@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
To play devil's advocate, I thi= nk an unquantified sumti is pretty much what we want.

Ho= wever, we don't have "which", so we don't really have "any".

"Which sandwich do you want?"

= "Any sandwhich is fine."

In Lojban I wouldn't say = it that way.

{.i ko cuxna fi loi snuji} or summat.=

Whatever... I'm out of opinions/suggestions.
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To view this discussion on the web visit https://= groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/_yaqp1NSe-wJ.

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--
mu'o mi'e .= arpis.

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