Received: from mail-vb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:58640) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T5nnC-0004zg-6Y; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 18:07:10 -0700 Received: by vbzb23 with SMTP id b23sf4163601vbz.16 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 18:06:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=dPGI3zJvZptMR6wr7BgDr7CbTE7a7RHPgM8ZLt6I7V4=; b=c0x3iuEGdhcX1KFs3rdARNUGUbrDwKL13NEzJigALQPrNa03K2yg7Lsn8VFV7YjZfi cn/9zn1twlFD0bR/4TFDsqH7xdP6X4nr3EtBMdVoQJ8FpjsiSDDFD45Vrdp1lQ2tY6z2 /cY6xMFNlDqiEpPPXoG+k55g5qKGGPl7B08gc03NKOeQXSpRckK+1ITcZSdvoWuURDfy nUmN8tEokhocRa1J1s477AkaNz/8GYTBA9TmdPdig25i5N2B38wqPFKMs23HBohXg+5H ozva7jg8+Aag9tvE6GvCu5fTU9aWqhLIcQxWkVa/qyHLHPxNx0lSqdyOHuaMtUlUho+L +99w== Received: by 10.50.36.135 with SMTP id q7mr2077706igj.4.1346029615242; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 18:06:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.104.166 with SMTP id gf6ls5369301igb.3.canary; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 18:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.43.9.8 with SMTP id ou8mr5192591icb.4.1346029614660; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 18:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.43.9.8 with SMTP id ou8mr5192590icb.4.1346029614642; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 18:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m5si1693629igo.2.2012.08.26.18.06.54 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 26 Aug 2012 18:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.182; Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so9551981obb.13 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 18:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.17.99 with SMTP id n3mr8793379obd.8.1346029614204; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 18:06:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.76.132.2 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Aug 2012 18:06:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1345997543.40403.YahooMailNeo@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <44e6fb5c-91f3-47ba-817c-8560c9c6ca14@googlegroups.com> <502B9E61.8060808@gmx.de> <502BA634.3030007@gmx.de> <502C50EB.3090704@gmail.com> <7e604d79-8ecd-4690-bc39-bf48b601d46f@googlegroups.com> <5036D423.5050101@gmail.com> <34c8db6a-3ddd-48cb-b36c-2748ed06d72d@googlegroups.com> <20120825132428.GB25027@samsa> <5039220D.4030304@gmail.com> <2e2d09e2-7d8d-4bd1-9787-ad38e12f8c68@googlegroups.com> <1345946245.41308.YahooMailNeo@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4868ea50-8958-4111-abc1-f29525d74d4e@googlegroups.com> <1345997543.40403.YahooMailNeo@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: ".arpis." Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2012 21:06:34 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro} To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04446bfb03057904c834f154 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d04446bfb03057904c834f154 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm not dyslexic, but lojban sometimes makes me feel like I am; I meant to say {nabypalne}, which is glossed as sandwich among other things. The {tu'a} and using {citka} in a tanru are idiosyncratic and probably not necessary in a more carefully constructed sentence. On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 12:12 PM, John E Clifford wrote: > Relying on pragmatics is best when the semantics is sound, which is not > clear here. I can't parse {nabyplane} off hand, so I'll skip that and also > the awkwardness of having both {tu'a} and the elided predicate {citka} > present. The scope of {ma} is problematic: is it this world, where, > admittedly, the answer presumably lies, or the world of {lo nu do citka}, > where the language places it? Happily, the answer is a this-worldly {da}, > which covers the difference smoothly (the event world presumably in these > cases includes the relevant portions of the actual world and, perhaps, then > some). > > ------------------------------ > *From:* .arpis. > *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Saturday, August 25, 2012 10:14 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro} > > I wonder if we can rely on pragmatics... > > {tu'a ma poi nabyplane do citka se djica} > {.i da} > > We do have which, I think: {ma poi} > > On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 10:25 PM, la .lindar. wrote: > > To play devil's advocate, I think an unquantified sumti is pretty much > what we want. > > However, we don't have "which", so we don't really have "any". > > "Which sandwich do you want?" > > "Any sandwhich is fine." > > In Lojban I wouldn't say it that way. > > {.i ko cuxna fi loi snuji} or summat. > > Whatever... I'm out of opinions/suggestions. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/_yaqp1NSe-wJ. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .arpis. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .arpis. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --f46d04446bfb03057904c834f154 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm not dyslexic, but lojban sometimes makes me feel like I am; I meant= to say {nabypalne}, which is glossed as sandwich among other things.
The {tu'a} and using {citka} in a tanru are idiosyncratic and probabl= y not necessary in a more carefully constructed sentence.

On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 12:12 PM, John E Cli= fford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
Relying on pragmatics is best when the semantics is sound, which i= s not clear here.=A0 I can't parse {nabyplane} off hand, so I'll sk= ip that and also the awkwardness of having both {tu'a} and the elided p= redicate {citka} present.=A0 The scope of {ma} is problematic: is it this w= orld, where, admittedly, the answer presumably lies, or the world of {lo nu= do citka}, where the language places it?=A0 Happily, the answer is a this-= worldly {da}, which covers the difference smoothly (the event world presuma= bly in these cases includes the relevant portions of the actual world and, = perhaps, then some).


From: .arpis. <rpglover64+jbob= au@gmail.com>
To:= lojban@google= groups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 25, = 2012 10:14 PM

Sub= ject: Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro}

I wonder if we can rely on pragmatics...

{tu'a ma poi nabyp= lane do citka se djica}
{.i da}

We do have which, I think: {ma po= i}

On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 10:25 PM, la .lindar. <lindarthebard@gmail.com> wrote:
To play devil's advocate, I think an unquantified sumti is pre= tty much what we want.

However, we don't have "= which", so we don't really have "any".

"Which sandwich do you want?"

<= /div>
"Any sandwhich is fine."

In Lo= jban I wouldn't say it that way.

{.i ko cuxna = fi loi snuji} or summat.

Whatever... I'm out of opinions/suggestions.
<= div> --
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://= groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/_yaqp1NSe-wJ.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

--
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--
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--
mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

--
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