la gleki, On 27/08/2012 05:34:
>
>
> On Saturday, August 25, 2012 10:58:19 PM UTC+4, And Rosta wrote:
>
> la gleki, On 25/08/2012 15:23:
> > OK. Please translate
> >
> > "I could eat some specific apple from tha= t basket, namely the yellow (all the others are red)"
>
> "mi su'o mu'ei citka le plise je se lanka be ta"
>
> > "I could eat any apple from that basket".
>
> "ro da poi ge plise gi se lanka ta zo'u mi su'o mu'e= i citka da"
> >
> 1. So "Give me any three apples from the basket!" would be {ro da = poi
> plise zo'u ko su'omu'ei dunda ci da}?

I think that means "For every bunch of apples, make it the case that yo= u could give me three out of the bunch.

For "Give me any three apples", I'd suggest "e'o do dunda mi lo plise c= imei", or "e'o do mi dunda ci da poi plise". Maybe "ko dunda" would do, but= afaik scope of ko isn't defined.

"e'o do mi dunda ci da poi plise" - it= 's not Loglan. {dunda - x1 [donor] gives/donates gift/present x2 to recipie= nt/beneficiary x3 [without payment/exchange].}

So = it should be "e'o do fi mi dunda fe ci da poi plise".

Now translate "Give me three (specific) apples" - it will again = be translated as "e'o do fi mi dunda fe ci da poi plise".

When I suggested

da - some/any
da su'a - any
da su'anai - some specific

I was h= inting at a scale (specific/ non-specific). It's something that was complet= ely lost after xorlo reform ({le} meant some objects that I have in mind an= d therefore worked much like an attitudinal. I'm not suggesting restoring p= re-xorlo rules, of course).

I must acknowledge tha= t {ro da zo'u mi su'omu'ei citka da} solves the problem (and I want exactly= this sentence rephrased without {zo'u} like it's possible to do in English= ).

But if adding {e'o} turns it into "For every bunch of app= les, make it the case that you could give me three out of the bunch."

then it's not a solution.

"any" (in this sens= e) is {su'o} number of apples from the set in the basket.

If we have 4 apples (numbered from 1 to 4) then "Give me three appl= es from the basket" would mean in all possible worlds ({romu'ei} ?) on= e of the following:

123

124

134

234=

So here "Give me any three apples" =3D "In every = possible world give me exactly three apples out of the 4 from that basket."=

There's no single Lojban word corresponding to English _any_. But there= are Lojban sentences expressing the meaning of English sentences that cont= ain _any_.

> So in every possible world I'm asking for three {da}?

No.

> 2. Is it possible to get rid of {zo'u}?

In your Lojban? I can't a way, but maybe I'm being slow.

--And.

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