Received: from mail-gg0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]:54809) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T6U8s-0005Np-QV; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:20:19 -0700 Received: by ggcs5 with SMTP id s5sf6195025ggc.16 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:20:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=1nros/lsciQZ0DEdtC3/WNMyJp+dVBVjL4hFLfvqmRg=; b=QHSqO6Ahz6sWbKgbIIaXQZckfF2LjLgSx9Xv9deEGRnzhZgcz+lXjkwgopU7aBU5U/ /Y2Fu1kyYQjLZsvc6Sq19/yxLe7pqFbmB0LbmfrCFfB/Z0DwEmpLhnwXaWGAdZ3ee0kd 4mF2v00S+CXZOS8GKx+FiD9K3+vaYMzSdajIR8tZSgd+nPDpdkt8m00/S9KX6pEOstR8 Q8x6EVY0TN0AtVeBQ4/eX43KL59vhDxQIuBsSAEVjPD53kOsFmQEutD8FOfIOUrzmRsH mO9+096wuDpSB0jPY3lCOJoKgJiyBGVgC7YACuRu3oE0smoH+dbMl6UV3FNtDJsmLD7h dPSg== Received: by 10.52.156.18 with SMTP id wa18mr2849665vdb.9.1346192408114; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:20:08 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.221.0.70 with SMTP id nl6ls966689vcb.5.gmail; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.59.5.73 with SMTP id ck9mr6468824ved.15.1346192407279; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.59.5.73 with SMTP id ck9mr6468821ved.15.1346192407258; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-f179.google.com (mail-vc0-f179.google.com [209.85.220.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id cf2si61907vdb.0.2012.08.28.15.20.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.179; Received: by mail-vc0-f179.google.com with SMTP id p16so7710591vcq.24 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.0.82 with SMTP id 18mr17566575vec.0.1346192407137; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:20:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.95.234 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:19:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1b8bb927-a69e-4fc1-a85d-97c4203b751d@googlegroups.com> <5009A007.2030107@gmail.com> <5009C826.2090108@gmail.com> From: Jacob Errington Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:19:45 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_=5Blojban=5D_Re=3A_lujvo_for_=22spelling=22=3F_=28was_Re=3A_=5Bloj?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?ban=2Dbeginners=5D_How_do_you_write_=22Eyjafjallaj=F6kull=22=3F_=28a_sent?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?ence_from_tatoeba=29=29?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: nictytan@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=nictytan@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b33d3463a0d1604c85ad8f1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --047d7b33d3463a0d1604c85ad8f1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The spelling of a word is irrelevant to who it is that spells it. Lojbanically speaking, that is only a half truth. Words are intrinsically related to a language by virtue of valsi3, and languages are intrinsically related to their speakers by virtue of bangu2. Therefore, words are somewhat related to the speakers of the language to which the word belongs. That, however, is irrelevant because someone can spell a word without knowing that the word exists. Regardless of that short philosophical part, we can form regular lujvo of the type "x1 says [seltau] to xN-1 via medium xN" by suffixing -sku to pretty much whatever (please don't raise {djisku} as a counter-argument; {djisku} is among the most horrible lujvo ever, jvajvo-speaking). lo ka lerpoisku cu ka cusku ce'u noi lerpoi replace {lerpoi} with my previous definition of lerpoi. .i mi'e la tsani mu'o On 28 August 2012 14:06, Michael Turniansky wrote: > Absolutely. But you can use either method of lujvo formation to get > both meanings. It's just whether you want to add a gau part to a > non-agential word to make it agential, or use zi'o (or just leave it blan= k, > zo'e'ing it) to make an agential work into a non-agential one. Personal > preference *shrug* If (for example) "lerganzu" means something like "g1 > spells word l3 as g3=3Dl1 in language/by rules g4=3Dl2" you can ask "ma t= e > lerganzu zo barda" and receive back an answer of "me'o by ce'o abu ce'o r= y > ce'o dy ce'o abu" or "me'o by ce'o ibu ce'o gy go'i fi mi lo ka tolmencre > se ra'a mi" > --gejsypa > > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 12:55 PM, .arpis. wr= ote: > >> The (correct) spelling of a word is irrespective of the person doing the >> spelling (action). There are two concepts: "food" is spelled "f-o-o-d" >> regardless of who's talking, and I can spell "food" "f-o-o-d". >> >> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Michael Turniansky < >> mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 6:23 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 6:05 PM, vitci'i >>>> wrote: >>>> > jbovlaste's definition for lerpoi doesn't seem to have a place for t= he >>>> > word formed by the sequence of letters. I have to repeat iesk's >>>> question. >>>> >>>> Maybe "lerpoipo'i": ko'a porpi ko'e noi porsi lo lerfu >>>> >>>> zo broda lerpoipo'i by ce'o ry ce'o .obu ce'o dy ce'o .abu >>>> >>>> The pronoun "by" is not the name of the letter B, but it can well be >>>> used to refer to the letter B since whatever its name is in Lojban, if >>>> it has one, it probably begins with B. >>>> >>>> Another maybe more practical option is: >>>> >>>> zo broda lerpoipo'i by ry .obu dy .abu >>>> >>>> where the pronoun "by ry .obu dy .abu" is used to refer to the letter >>>> sequence B, R, O, D, A. It's unlikely that this pronoun will ever be >>>> used to refer to anything else. >>>> >>>> mu'o mi'e xorxes >>>> >>>> >>> Personally, my philosophy on a lujvo for spelling would be more based >>> on "ganzu", rather than "porsi", for the simple reason that spelling is >>> usually agential in nature... >>> -gejyspa >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --047d7b33d3463a0d1604c85ad8f1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The spelling of a word is irrelevant to who it is that spells it. Lojbanica= lly speaking, that is only a half truth. Words are intrinsically related to= a language by virtue of valsi3, and languages are intrinsically related to= their speakers by virtue of bangu2. Therefore, words are somewhat related = to the speakers of the language to which the word belongs. That, however, i= s irrelevant because someone can spell a word without knowing that the word= exists.

Regardless of that short philosophical part, we can form reg= ular lujvo of the type "x1 says [seltau] to xN-1 via medium xN" b= y suffixing -sku to pretty much whatever (please don't raise {djisku} a= s a counter-argument; {djisku} is among the most horrible lujvo ever, jvajv= o-speaking).

lo ka lerpoisku cu ka cusku ce'u noi lerpoi
replace {lerpoi} with my previous definition of lerpoi.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

On 28 August 2012 14:06, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0 Absolutely. =A0But you can use either method of lujvo = formation to get both meanings. =A0It's just whether you want to add a = gau part to a non-agential word to make it agential, or use zi'o (or ju= st leave it blank, zo'e'ing it) to make an agential work into a non= -agential one. =A0Personal preference *shrug* =A0If (for example) "ler= ganzu" means something like "g1 spells word l3 as g3=3Dl1 in lang= uage/by rules g4=3Dl2" you can ask "ma te lerganzu zo barda"= and receive back an answer of "me'o by ce'o abu ce'o ry c= e'o dy ce'o abu" or "me'o by ce'o ibu ce'o gy= go'i fi mi lo ka tolmencre se ra'a mi"
=A0 =A0 --gejsypa


On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 12:55 PM, .arpis. <= rpglover64= +jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
The (correct) spelling of a word is irrespec= tive of the person doing the spelling (action). There are two concepts: &qu= ot;food" is spelled "f-o-o-d" regardless of who's talkin= g, and I can spell "food" "f-o-o-d".

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:19 AM, = Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:





--
mu'o mi'e .arpis.
<= br>

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