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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:20:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: iesk <pa.fae@gmx.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <925d17561003280714y30d5eb1fo19b9f97eb6902eaa@mail.gmail.com> <4BAF7446.6070008@gmail.com> <20100328192909.GG6600@digitalkingdom.org> <925d17561003281729t30ffbfcbge6209c18f8d01d36@mail.gmail.com> <06B70573-D388-4FA0-8F64-9BB9FFAFB2EC@gmail.com> <CAMKwHj1YNhig2vt7rK9CfPMvPipg+aVmDmHK24-=2PWMVLsvfA@mail.gmail.com> <CAO7tK2dL906FpuLYXRVr1FWYkCSgvKQsp27Ye+tZA9dGnBwXsg@mail.gmail.com> <f0d41ed9-5f75-4e3c-bf5a-3b63e8ff9d9e@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis.
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Le mercredi 29 ao=FBt 2012 14:38:17 UTC+2, Evertype a =E9crit :
>
> On 28 Aug 2012, at 13:41, iesk wrote:=20
>
> > Btw, I think that {=ABlu =85 li=92u=BB} looks better than {lu=AB =85 =
=BBli'u}. I think=20
> that =ABSwiss=BB looks better than =BBGerman=AB, and =BBGerman=AB looks b=
etter than=20
> =BBSwedish=BB, but as you can see, different people do things in differen=
t ways=20
> and are used to different styles.=20
>
> I don't propose to use {lu=AB =85 =BBli'u}... I propose to use {lu =AB=85=
=BB li'u}.=20
>
And why not? (I=92d still prefer {=ABlu =85 li=92u=BB}.)
=20

>
> > Regarding for Mr Christopher Plummer=92s hypothetical performance: I th=
ink=20
> he could do {=ABlu =85 li=92u=BB} just fine, as French narrators apparent=
ly have no=20
> problems with {=AB Quotation quotation, says the speaker, quotation=20
> quotation. =BB}.=20
>
> I propose to use {=ABQuotation quotation,=BB says the speaker, =ABquotati=
on=20
> quotation.=BB} regardless of the French practice; but even so:=20
>
> =AB Je crains bien de ne pouvoir pas m=92expliquer, =BB dit Alice, =AB ca=
r,=20
> voyez-vous, je ne suis plus moi-m=EAme. =BB=20
>
Most unusual, but I=92m not a professional. Newspapers (well, at least the=
=20
only French newspaper that I occasionally read, ie Le Monde) do use=20
italicised text: {<i>=AB Je le crains bien,</i> dit Alice, <i>car, et la=20
suite. =BB</i>}
=20

>
> > In some books, a single opening quotation marks the beginning of a whol=
e=20
> block of dialogue, which ends with a single closing quotation mark. In=20
> other books, there is an opening quotation mark at the beginning of every=
=20
> single line of text, and just one closing mark at the end.=20
>
> What, in French? Well, that wasn't Carroll's practice in an ycase.=20
>
I was under the impression that Carroll wrote in English. ;-)

But, yes, in French. For the first method, cf.=20
http://jbotcan.org/ideas/imageboard.html#655 (from a book from 1969).

For the second, I did not find an example, but it does exist. And I believe=
=20
the TeX and HTML people are still complaining that it's difficult to do=20
digitally.
=20

>
> > Many people are used to =91technical=92 (character-exact) quotation tod=
ay,=20
> but that=92s not the only way to use quotation marks. In Lojban, especial=
ly,=20
> we can take some liberties because, supposedly, real confusion cannot=20
> arise.=20
>
> Then there shouldn't be any difficulties in taking conservative Victorian=
=20
> "liberties". :-)=20
>
> > I think the style adopted for http://alis.lojban.org/ is good.=20
>
> To me each paragraph is still just a wall of words, though there are some=
=20
> quotation marks and parentheses there. I don't see it as admirable either=
=20
> in terms of functionality or Latin-script aesthetics.=20
>

It's =91only=92 web typography. A slightly larger whitespace in front of {.=
i}=20
could work wonders, I believe.
=20
=96 All IMHO. =96

-iesk, who feels there is a certain dignity in Lojban=92s all-lower-case=20
orthography

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo=
jban/-/p0mVCMmlp5wJ.
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------=_Part_2392_13079511.1346257208407
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Le mercredi 29 ao=FBt 2012 14:38:17 UTC+2, Evertype a =E9crit&nbsp;:<blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-lef=
t: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On 28 Aug 2012, at 13:41, iesk wrote:
<br>
<br>&gt; Btw, I think that {=ABlu =85 li=92u=BB} looks better than {lu=AB =
=85 =BBli'u}. I think that =ABSwiss=BB looks better than =BBGerman=AB, and =
=BBGerman=AB looks better than =BBSwedish=BB, but as you can see, different=
 people do things in different ways and are used to different styles.
<br>
<br>I don't propose to use {lu=AB =85 =BBli'u}... I propose to use {lu =AB=
=85=BB li'u}.
<br></blockquote><div>And why not? (I=92d still prefer {=ABlu =85 li=92u=BB=
}.)<br>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;mar=
gin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>&gt; Regarding for Mr Christopher Plummer=92s hypothetical performance:=
 I think he could do {=ABlu =85 li=92u=BB} just fine, as French narrators a=
pparently have no problems with {=AB Quotation quotation, says the speaker,=
 quotation quotation. =BB}.
<br>
<br>I propose to use {=ABQuotation quotation,=BB says the speaker, =ABquota=
tion quotation.=BB} regardless of the French practice; but even so:
<br>
<br>=AB Je crains bien de ne pouvoir pas m=92expliquer, =BB dit Alice, =AB =
car, voyez-vous, je ne suis plus moi-m=EAme. =BB
<br></blockquote><div>Most unusual, but I=92m not a professional. Newspaper=
s (well, at least the only French newspaper that I occasionally read, ie Le=
 Monde) do use italicised text: {&lt;i&gt;=AB Je le crains bien,&lt;/i&gt; =
dit Alice, &lt;i&gt;car, et la suite. =BB&lt;/i&gt;}<br>&nbsp;</div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-lef=
t: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>&gt; In some books, a single opening quotation marks the beginning of a=
 whole block of dialogue, which ends with a single closing quotation mark. =
In other books, there is an opening quotation mark at the beginning of ever=
y single line of text, and just one closing mark at the end.
<br>
<br>What, in French? Well, that wasn't Carroll's practice in an ycase.=20
<br></blockquote><div>I was under the impression that Carroll wrote in Engl=
ish. ;-)<br><br>But, yes, in French. For the first method, cf. http://jbotc=
an.org/ideas/imageboard.html#655 (from a book from 1969).<br><br>For the se=
cond, I did not find an example, but it does exist. And I believe the TeX a=
nd HTML people are still complaining that it's difficult to do digitally.<b=
r>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-l=
eft: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>&gt; Many people are used to =91technical=92 (character-exact) quotatio=
n today, but that=92s not the only way to use quotation marks. In Lojban, e=
specially, we can take some liberties because, supposedly, real confusion c=
annot arise.
<br>
<br>Then there shouldn't be any difficulties in taking conservative Victori=
an "liberties". :-)
<br>
<br>&gt; I think the style adopted for <a href=3D"http://alis.lojban.org/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://alis.lojban.org/</a> is good.
<br>
<br>To me each paragraph is still just a wall of words, though there are so=
me quotation marks and parentheses there. I don't see it as admirable eithe=
r in terms of functionality or Latin-script aesthetics.
<br></blockquote><div><br>It's =91only=92 web typography. A slightly larger=
 whitespace in front of {.i} could work wonders, I believe.<br>&nbsp;<br>=
=96 All IMHO. =96<br><br>-iesk, who feels there is a certain dignity in Loj=
ban=92s all-lower-case orthography<br></div>

<p></p>

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mVCMmlp5wJ</a>.<br />=20
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