Received: from mail-iy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.210.189]:55654) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T6lIa-0007MB-23; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:39:29 -0700 Received: by iadx2 with SMTP id x2sf755401iad.16 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:39:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=IekRur4gDqWfdxbj4iiF88S1pOTEluETXtvM0Mze750=; b=vNFB25jQB2fKkvTvEbcHTZPr6qTJTcLKRWDN+puTXEjpMUAOkdZggKrYnpSsdKP3rX eIwO+KiAxoJKqLrcKEK0HVPTL3Ex5KkmWFd/alQ/vtE4ePV4GeBxA8QdpTazJsFyegQI FikU8jhOIyISu9GzIOL6tap5LW58E8pF3IKP0NsHzjIeifTSSWTZJ9Vu77c+NmnYdNSa +9D68kWPa3QlE3uaH5R6/v6TKfvfZiEdTptA3ZQgfJ722Gk8eYz4ji2YWamKrPUqU4vu WzXdJfjlIJOPhzrdPEGiQgjNCEMQGDE+jo54nzpSJn4P/wFXlnpk+as/0B9LBTSLsZkY HaJw== Received: by 10.52.91.47 with SMTP id cb15mr374641vdb.11.1346258357435; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:39:17 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.154.17 with SMTP id m17ls1566635vcw.1.gmail; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.33.34 with SMTP id o2mr363419vdi.12.1346258356791; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:39:15 -0700 (PDT) From: iesk To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <981db48c-88ba-4c39-9587-7d50d67c78d7@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <503D3514.6050501@gmx.de> References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <925d17561003280714y30d5eb1fo19b9f97eb6902eaa@mail.gmail.com> <4BAF7446.6070008@gmail.com> <20100328192909.GG6600@digitalkingdom.org> <925d17561003281729t30ffbfcbge6209c18f8d01d36@mail.gmail.com> <06B70573-D388-4FA0-8F64-9BB9FFAFB2EC@gmail.com> <503D2DFB.10202@gmx.de> <55d4be2d-d8f0-47bf-a8f9-c449b79a7e0b@googlegroups.com> <503D3434.3080903@gmx.de> <503D3514.6050501@gmx.de> Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: pa.fae@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pa.fae@gmx.de designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=pa.fae@gmx.de; dkim=pass header.i=@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_228_720174.1346258355733" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_228_720174.1346258355733 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was not thinking of (unambiguous) word-segmentation, only of phonetics.= =20 Words can run together in the =91speech stream=92, and two adjacent vowels = can=20 diphthongise, regardless of whether [lau,Iskiu,i] parses as {la uiski ui}= =20 or as gibberish.=20 Sorry, it wasn=92t very clear. Also, this doesn=92t belong here. Sorry. -iesk Le mardi 28 ao=FBt 2012 23:16:08 UTC+2, selpa'i a =E9crit : > > For some reason, the accented letters got replaced by weird letter=20 > combinations. Her's the same text with capitals instead:=20 > > Am 28.08.2012 23:12, schrieb selpa'i:=20 > > Am 28.08.2012 23:04, schrieb iesk:=20 > >> Thank you, la selpa'i. I will investigate that. If Jorge and you=20 > >> agree on it, I have no reasonable doubts.=20 > >>=20 > >> I guess that glottal-stopping is not wrong, though? I prefer it that= =20 > >> way.=20 > >=20 > > Inserting glottal stops between words is always allowed.=20 > >=20 > >> Does not {la uiski ui} otherwise become /lau,iskiu,i/, with confusing= =20 > >> diphthongs? Is that desirable?=20 > >=20 > > That cannot happen. The stress is on the first syllable of "uiski":=20 > > {la UIski ui}. If you leave out the spaces, you get {laUIskiui}, which= =20 > > can only fragment into la UIski ui because:=20 > > 1) "laUIski" can't be a single word, because the stress is on UIski,=20 > > and the la falls off due to tosmabru=20 > > 2) the trailing "ui" can not be part of uiski because again the stress= =20 > > makes everything after the next syllable fall off. Also, the u of "ui"= =20 > > cannot be part of uiski (*"uiskiu") because that's not a legal word=20 > > (remember that it would have to be pronounced [wiskiw], which is=20 > > illegal. And the i couldn't possibly be seperate either, because [i]=20 > > alone doesn't constitute a legal lojban word, as Lojban words can't=20 > > begin in a vowel.=20 > >=20 > > mu'o mi'e la selpa'i=20 > >=20 > --=20 > pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo=20 > > ^:i \jl /flr sen |ziu \su xn go kror=20 > ^:i \sym tfn /zu viw \xn jy ^jaiw=20 > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo= jban/-/SAdn1UInnz0J. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. ------=_Part_228_720174.1346258355733 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was not thinking of (unambiguous) word-segmentation, only of phonetics. W= ords can run together in the =91speech stream=92, and two adjacent vowels c= an diphthongise, regardless of whether [lau,Iskiu,i] parses as {la uiski ui= } or as gibberish.

Sorry, it wasn=92t very clear.

Also, this= doesn=92t belong here. Sorry.

-iesk

Le mardi 28 ao=FBt 2012 = 23:16:08 UTC+2, selpa'i a =E9crit :
For some reason, the accented letters got replaced by weird lette= r=20
combinations. Her's the same text with capitals instead:

Am 28.08.2012 23:12, schrieb selpa'i:
> Am 28.08.2012 23:04, schrieb iesk:
>> Thank you, la selpa'i. I will investigate that. If Jorge and y= ou=20
>> agree on it, I have no reasonable doubts.
>>
>> I guess that glottal-stopping is not wrong, though? I prefer i= t that=20
>> way.
>
> Inserting glottal stops between words is always allowed.
>
>> Does not {la uiski ui} otherwise become /lau,iskiu,i/, with co= nfusing=20
>> diphthongs? Is that desirable?
>
> That cannot happen. The stress is on the first syllable of "uiski"= :=20
> {la UIski ui}. If you leave out the spaces, you get {laUIskiui}, w= hich=20
> can only fragment into la UIski ui because:
> 1) "laUIski" can't be a single word, because the stress is on UIsk= i,=20
> and the la falls off due to tosmabru
> 2) the trailing "ui" can not be part of uiski because again the st= ress=20
> makes everything after the next syllable fall off. Also, the u of = "ui"=20
> cannot be part of uiski (*"uiskiu") because that's not a legal wor= d=20
> (remember that it would have to be pronounced [wiskiw], which is= =20
> illegal. And the i couldn't possibly be seperate either, because [= i]=20
> alone doesn't constitute a legal lojban word, as Lojban words can'= t=20
> begin in a vowel.
>
> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
>
--=20
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo

^:i \jl /flr sen |ziu \su xn go kror
^:i \sym tfn /zu viw \xn jy ^jaiw

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/SA= dn1UInnz0J.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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