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Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_=5Blojban=5D_Re=3A_lujvo_for_=22spelling=22=3F_=28was_Re=3A_=5Bloj?=
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From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
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mi na tsali fapro fi tu'a zo lerpoisku .i ma prali ta'o fi lo nu go'i
.i za'a lo jinga be lo za'i lo jboce'u cu pilno   bei fo lo nufinit
cei broda lo valsi  be ro da bei la lojban  cu so'eroi du lo pamoi be
lo'i broda

               --gejyspa

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote=
:
> We can specify a standard, if required, with a sumti tag like {ma'i}.
> When asking the question, we can use a relative phrase to restrict the
> referents to the ones related to the listener {.i ma pe do lerpoi ... }
>
> Those seem like sufficient methods to include a standard or speller.
> Equally, if a word has a different spelling depending on context, we can =
use
> a {va'o} tag. Lujvo are limited in that we have to compromise with the
> places. We can't just throw some in, if the component words of the lujvo
> don't have them.
>
> I didn't see you object to {lerpoisku}; is it fine?
>
> .i mi'e la tsani mu'o
>
> On 29 August 2012 06:18, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>>
>>   No, the PROPER spelling of a word is irrelevant to who spells it.  But
>> it is only PARTIALLY related to the language in which it is spelled.  Fo=
r
>> example there are many words that have more than one legitimate spelling=
 --
>> theatre/theater, labor/labour, for example.  (Did you know there are
>> actually 8 spellings of the word "ganef" in the Scrabble dictionary that=
 are
>> all acceptable?) The standard by which a word is spelled is therefore a
>> potentially needful part (but can be defaulted as I did in my first answ=
er,
>> though).  As for the actual speller of a word, in a given instance of
>> spelling  ("HOW did you spell that word on the test?") is definitely
>> important to know.  (i.e. the proper spelling is an intrinsic property o=
f
>> the word, but an instantiation of  spelling is agential. )  But that's j=
ust
>> the way I think about it, and since I spell words all the time, for mone=
y (
>> http://cross-tables.com/results.php?playerid=3D2141 )  and need to spell=
 them
>> correctly for other pursuits
>> http://www.oedilf.com/db/Lim.php?ShowcaseAction=3DAuthor&ShowcaseAuthor=
=3D1128 ,
>> I like to think my feelings on spelling have some weight. YMMV
>>             --gejyspa
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The spelling of a word is irrelevant to who it is that spells it.
>>> Lojbanically speaking, that is only a half truth. Words are intrinsical=
ly
>>> related to a language by virtue of valsi3, and languages are intrinsica=
lly
>>> related to their speakers by virtue of bangu2. Therefore, words are som=
ewhat
>>> related to the speakers of the language to which the word belongs. That=
,
>>> however, is irrelevant because someone can spell a word without knowing=
 that
>>> the word exists.
>>>
>>> Regardless of that short philosophical part, we can form regular lujvo =
of
>>> the type "x1 says [seltau] to xN-1 via medium xN" by suffixing -sku to
>>> pretty much whatever (please don't raise {djisku} as a counter-argument=
;
>>> {djisku} is among the most horrible lujvo ever, jvajvo-speaking).
>>>
>>> lo ka lerpoisku cu ka cusku ce'u noi lerpoi
>>> replace {lerpoi} with my previous definition of lerpoi.
>>>
>>> .i mi'e la tsani mu'o
>>>
>>> On 28 August 2012 14:06, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   Absolutely.  But you can use either method of lujvo formation to get
>>>> both meanings.  It's just whether you want to add a gau part to a
>>>> non-agential word to make it agential, or use zi'o (or just leave it b=
lank,
>>>> zo'e'ing it) to make an agential work into a non-agential one.  Person=
al
>>>> preference *shrug*  If (for example) "lerganzu" means something like "=
g1
>>>> spells word l3 as g3=3Dl1 in language/by rules g4=3Dl2" you can ask "m=
a te
>>>> lerganzu zo barda" and receive back an answer of "me'o by ce'o abu ce'=
o ry
>>>> ce'o dy ce'o abu" or "me'o by ce'o ibu ce'o gy go'i fi mi lo ka tolmen=
cre se
>>>> ra'a mi"
>>>>     --gejsypa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 12:55 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com=
>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The (correct) spelling of a word is irrespective of the person doing
>>>>> the spelling (action). There are two concepts: "food" is spelled "f-o=
-o-d"
>>>>> regardless of who's talking, and I can spell "food" "f-o-o-d".
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Michael Turniansky
>>>>> <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 6:23 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.=
com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 6:05 PM, vitci'i
>>>>>>> <celestialcognition@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> > jbovlaste's definition for lerpoi doesn't seem to have a place fo=
r
>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>> > word formed by the sequence of letters. I have to repeat iesk's
>>>>>>> > question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe "lerpoipo'i": ko'a porpi ko'e noi porsi lo lerfu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> zo broda lerpoipo'i by ce'o ry ce'o .obu ce'o dy ce'o .abu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The pronoun "by" is not the name of the letter B, but it can well b=
e
>>>>>>> used to refer to the letter B since whatever its name is in Lojban,
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> it has one, it probably begins with B.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another maybe more practical option is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> zo broda lerpoipo'i by ry .obu dy .abu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> where the pronoun "by ry .obu dy .abu" is used to refer to the lett=
er
>>>>>>> sequence B, R, O, D, A. It's unlikely that this pronoun will ever b=
e
>>>>>>> used to refer to anything else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Personally, my philosophy on a lujvo for spelling would be more
>>>>>> based on "ganzu", rather than "porsi", for the simple reason that sp=
elling
>>>>>> is usually agential in nature...
>>>>>>                 -gejyspa
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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